Rebecca Wrong-Daily Sacked

[Sexnotgender]

For apparently sharing something anti-Semitic.

Oh dear how sad.

@chomalungma

Just to remind you:

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.</div></div>

You're reminding me are you? I explained it to you yesterday.

Try reading it rather than copying and pasting.

You need to spend more time on the closed facebook pages. Your 'arguments' are as basic as they come.

@chomalungma

The racist will use the word and claim that it's ok. But they are wrong

Go on - look through those examples and point out any anti-semitism that I have done.

Like I said, try reading rather than copying and pasting.

Something tells me that isn't your thing though.

Something tells me that isn't your thing though

I have checked your posts to me and you haven't given a reason.

You have talked to me about the word 'occupation' and you have an issue with that word. Other than that. you have not given any reason to me why you think i am anti-semitic.

Your argument has been that the repeated use of the word 'occupied' makes you think I have an issue with the world's only Jewish state.

Yet many international organisations, many countries and even the Israeli High Court use the word 'occupied' to describe Israel and its actions in the West Bank.

Other than that, you have not given any other reason to me.

I don't see 'occupied' in the examples of anti-semitism.

Do you?

Oh

And from that definition

However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic

See for example my quotes on this thread about Tibet and China - another recent occupation by a power. Where the Tibetan people have been treated appallingly and had an influx of Chinese settlers to change the culture of Tibet.

The names and the intense focus is reserved for the lone, tiny, Jewish state

It isn't a 'lone' state at all, it is backed to the hilt by the USA. It is also a military superpower in its own right. This type of pathetic attempt to paint Israel as a helpless victim of Palestinian aggression brings us no nearer a peaceful solution.

The key to that solution lies in giving Palestine its full recognition as a State so they can legally combat the Israeli oppression.

Belgium Parliament has voted overwhelmingly to impose sanctions on Israel if it goes ahead with planned annexation in the West Bank. Are they anti-semitic?

Apart from the grand mufti of Jerusalem, who was a friend of Hitler

Did he persecute Jews or is this collective punishment because one man was friends with Hitler?

The land wasn't Jewish, it wasn't 'Palestinian' because the Palestinians didn't exist

What a ridiculous statement. Some of the arguments defending Israel express themselves in a really dehumanising way about Palestinians.

I can’t help but believe people are either not reading, or purposefully misinterpreting, high court judgements and their contexts. My law school specialism was international dispute and I work and specialise in the Middle East. I’m so disappointed in what I have read here.

Annexation is nothing to do with Palestine, even a novice in Israeli politics recognises that’s far more to do with the pending court cases facing Bibi. If you aren’t aware of the politics of the region, please don’t comment.

Oh, and if anyone still has questions about what occupation means in this context, please refer to my previous posts on the matter which are related to the type of context of HC decisions.

Ask yourselves whether you’re vocally targeting the Jordanian, Lebanese and Syrian governments who mistreat Palestinian people. If you’re not so vocal here, why?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/26/sacking-rebecca-long-bailey-labour-antisemitism-keir-starmer

Ask yourselves whether you’re vocally targeting the Jordanian, Lebanese and Syrian governments who mistreat Palestinian people. If you’re not so vocal here, why

TBH - I haven't spoken about Israel ever on here or elsewhere for ages. So I am not vocal about it, or Jordan, or Lebanon or Syria. The only reason I am talking about it at the moment is in the context of this thread and being in the news.

I don't belong to any closed Facebook groups as has been suggested, I don't belong to any groups who go on the streets and I don't talk about it with people.

However - this thread has made reminded me of what we've all seen in the news over the decades. The intifida, the reaction, the rocket attacks, stone throwing, blockades, the air attacks on Gaza, the suicide bombings, the building of settlements, the various attempts at treaties and solutions, the way a modern democracy like Israel is seen to be treating the Palestinian people in the West Bank and elsewhere. It's reminded me of the documentaries about how difficult life can be for people just trying to survive. It's reminded me that people with nothing to lose will do what they do to resist and survive and that violent reaction to such resistance will never win in the long run.

It's made me look at the Amnesty reports into the Israeli Government.

www.amnesty.org.uk/issues/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories

The blog on the director of Amnesty International is an eye opener into how hard life is for people in that part of the world

www.amnesty.org.uk/other-side-barbed-wire-five-days-israel-and-palestine

So as I said, I am not vocal about it. Not on here, not elsewhere. No closed Facebook groups, no twitter conversations, no signing of petitions, no boycotts, nothing. It's just not part of my life.

I do think that human rights are important - and this thread has prompted me to join Amnesty International.

I do think that any kind of prejudice is awful and I can't understand why people discriminate against a group based on a characteristic.

However, it's easy to see that there is prejudice in this world and discrimination and that it is easy to encourage people to hate. Just say the right things, build on their fears, repeat, use your platform to encourage it and you can turn people against a group. That's what Auschwitz and the Holocaust shows. That's what Rwanda showed. Srebenica.Plus all the others through time. You can see it now.

The allegations of anti-semitism by a poster on here disgust me. I know what hate is and prejudice is. I know how harmful it is. And I will fight tooth and nail to fight it.

Did he persecute Jews or is this collective punishment because one man was friends with Hitler?

He did. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was involved in getting Iraq to join the Axis in the Second World War (there was promptly a pogrom against the Jews in Baghdad), before taking off for Berlin, where he spent the majority of the war recruiting Muslims for the German army, and taking notes on the Holocaust. After the end of the war, he ended up back in Palestine, where he spent his time rallying the local Arabs to fight a holy war to exterminate all the Jews in the region.

So, not a particularly nice person, then.

But, here's the thing; there are a lot of antisemitism denialists on the left, who try to pass off Arab antisemitism as a product of the Arab-Israeli conflict. People like the Grand Mufti show that there was already an existing and concerted antisemitic feeling in the region prior to the establishment of Israel, and persecutions and pogroms were hardly an uncommon event, even prior to the Second World War.

But, here's the thing; there are a lot of antisemitism denialists on the left, who try to pass off Arab antisemitism as a product of the Arab-Israeli conflict. People like the Grand Mufti show that there was already an existing and concerted antisemitic feeling in the region prior to the establishment of Israel, and persecutions and pogroms were hardly an uncommon event, even prior to the Second World War

This is what happens when a movement becomes fixated on one particular narrative. Everything is then shoe-horned in to fit that narrative.

Margaret Beckett is on LBC discussing this now - 10.40am.

Just so I know then, and I'd particularly welcome the clarity from any posters from the Jewish community :

1-Can I be anti-israeli (gov/policy) and not be considered anti semitic?
2-Can I criticise some of the discriminatory attitudes towards different demographics and intra-jewish racism in Israel without being anti-Semitic?
3- Can I be offended by the following paragraphs and vocalise my concerns but not be considered anti-semitic?

The article is pasted from the Haaretz newspaper

But in the heat of the arguments about the horrible cruelty of the expellers, it's forgotten that Israel is a racist state by law, including its Basic Laws that constitute the central body of the state's legislation. On the basis of this racism, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, National Union MK Michael Ben Ari, Interior Minister Eli Yishai and MK Ofir Akunis of Likud can join together and speak of "the danger to the Jewish state."

Israel's citizenship laws, those that forbid entry and those that enable immediate citizenship, have always been based on the distinction between Jew and non-Jew. There's no way to make this distinction without religion. That's the primary job of the rabbinate: to act as a separation fence between Jews and non-Jews.

This context, and in particular the Law of Return, sparks the recurring debate over "Who is a Jew." But those making the arguments never criticize the racist Law of Return. Anyone who would dig through newspaper archives would find that even respected "post-Zionists," more than a decade after the discourse on "Zionism as racism" received backing from the United Nations, took pains to defend the Law of Return among the intelligentsia. Their argument - that the Law of Return is a type of "affirmative action" - is total hypocrisy.

But the true picture of Israeli racism emerges from the citizenship laws and its budget. The expulsion of the African migrants, cruel and immoral as it may be, is "only" a festering sore; underneath it a daily toxicity of mechanisms and language, which not only enable the expulsion but quickly turn it into something normal.

Israeli state racism is not typical western racism, meaning hostility to the dark-skinned or an irrational fear of them. Israeli racism and its famous weapon - demographic statistics - assume that Arab natural growth is "a cancer in the body of the nation." It posits that educating Arab children is dangerous, which is why they receive a lot less education than Jewish children get; it's why Arabs are discriminated against regarding water quotas for agriculture; it assumes that the higher infant mortality rate among Arabs is because "they're slow," and this "slowness" of theirs hasn't changed in 64 years, because "that's the way it is."

I do not want to be walking on eggshells whenever I feel the urge to discuss politics of the Middle East. In my mind, I separate politics from people. To me, Israel and Israeli policy does not represent all Jewish people- It is just a country with messed up issues and like other countries, it's fair game for me, so I should feel completely ok to say what I want about Israel's practices and polices- but I don't because the lines are so blurred and I'd like to know if I am wrong, why I am wrong.

Jewdas are very much the wrong kind of Jews.

What the actual? Did you really post this @SuckingDieselFella, actually you did, I just find it hard to believe. Next you'll tell us Saudi Arabia promotes the wrong kind of Islam.

Regardless of your views on the sacking from the Labour shadow cabinet, I think everyone should refer to Rebecca Long-Bailey. You will be referring to the decision being by Keir Starmer, not some other nickname.

Hopefully Kate Green will be good at holding the Government to account as the new Shadow Education Secretary

Do we know much about her? She is a member of the Fawcett Society.

probably needs another thread...

Indeed, but I was partly making the point that
Long Bailey was not given leeway for the crass error of judgement
because she has been shit at her job

I just don’t understand why Israel was even brought up in relation to George Floyd.....
No need to even mention Israel in that conversation, it’s ridiculous

Because both women thought it was ok to publish this rubbish. The left doesn’t think. KS needs people who have greater awareness than this. Hopefully he’s put down a marker and won’t accept this lazy ill
Informed rubbish in the future either, despite what Momentum think!

Deleted for saying that people don't have a right to tell others they aren't allowed to speak. How very ironic

All sensible people should be glad to see the dreaded Rebecca Long Bailley gone. If you need to know why Labour performed so dismally at the last election take a look at her.

Labour has only ever been in power when run, at the top of the parliamentary party, by gifted people. Labour never gets anywhere when the standard of politicians in the top jobs dips to mediocre.

The best (and only successful leaders at the polls) leaders have been highly educated original thinkers that understand how to position the party to gain the required votes. All of that was absent after Brown/Blair. David Miliband would have been different.

Simply paying attention to the Left and the unions is never going to win in our voting system. Getting the right people to the fore of the Labour Party is key and that needs highly intelligent original thinkers who are not overly left leaning and are not puppets of the union movement. The clock cannot bectutned back.

RLB wasn’t up to it and the Labour Party is a bit short of these people in parliament due to selection committees being taken over by the Left/Momentum. They wanted obedient followers like RLB. They want loyalty to their cause and not the most intelligent forward thinking people. Labour needs a bigger pool of better quality MPs, as do the Conservatives.