Rebecca Wrong-Daily Sacked

[Sexnotgender]

For apparently sharing something anti-Semitic.

Oh dear how sad.

Good riddance RLB. She got the consequences she demanded for others. I wouldn't be surprised if KS wanted an excuse to get rid of her though - the pre-leadership result pact to put the losers on the front bench was a bit silly.

I'll stick my oar in about anti-Semitism. I've come across a lot of people who profess to care about Palestinians but I've never seen a single one of them mention any country except Israel. No one seems concerned about Palestinian people killed by Syrian, Jordanian, Lebanese and ISIS forces, all of which are responsible for far more fatalities. Plenty of outrage about Palestinians being kept in the Gaza strip unable to escape yet no mention ever of the country at the other side which, if the prison allegations are true, must surely play an equal part. There's no interest in the real concerns of Palestinian health authorities which is not warfare but heart disease and road accidents. There's exaggeration of Israel's growth, most of which was due to land won in the 6 day war, for which surrounding countries seem to still bear a huge grudge, and still hasn't taken the country over the size of Wales, or roughly 1% of the ME region. There are also conspiracies, lies and downright racism like you'd expect to see in 1930s Germany. Of course the Israeli government can be criticised - BN is a total knobhead imo - but this isn't criticism, it's obsession and racist hatred.

This article from Huffpost suggests otherwise. This seems to be the key to it: "Rather than the original tweet, Long-Bailey’s refusal to do what her leader wanted was what sealed her demise. “If you challenge the leader like that, what do you expect?” said one frontbencher."

Oh sure. I've read a couple of comments in papers suggesting previous conversations had occured about her performance, but I've no doubt that the refusal to do as asked was the main issue. I hadn't read how openly beligerant she'd been, thanks for the link.

she was repeatedly told that Starmer wanted her to delete the message and issue a full apology. HuffPost UK has been told Long-Bailey refused to take phone calls from the leader’s office, and after being given four hours to comply with his wishes

But then if there are these clear examples that RLB is saying such things, where can we see that? That surely has to be the bar - if you want to say someone is being anti-semitic, you actually have to show that. Not just say, anti-Semites who say clearly anti-Semitic things, who will remain unnamed, and have no connection to this, also say something similar sometimes

The twitter business with Maxine Peak, for me, is neither here nor there......and it seems unfortunate, although pretty inevitable that people live and die by twitter, these days. It does so much harm, and I'm not sure that people with prominent profiles should engage with it.

There are two issues for Long Bailey here. Firstly, she, like many others, simply don't recognise some of the anti-semitic roots of their own/the left's total obsession with Israel. If you don't acknowledge it, how can you address it? It has long been a part of the culture, on the left, to get all heated and irate about Israel and the U.S as representatives of everything they hate, that it is just part of the landscape and the air that is breathed.

You know people like Jeremy Corbyn, or even Alexei Sayle ( in his youth) who would rather wear sack cloth and ashes than go to the U.S on holiday, preferring instead to travel the eastern bloc with a tent and camper van.

The other issue, is one of almost unbelievable naivety, in liking or re-tweeting something that would feed into the perception that the left is obsessed with Israel, to the extent a policing issue in the U.S is brought back to the door of Israel. Especially knowing, as she must, how much this issue has riven the Labour party in recent years, and her position in a cabinet that is committed to dealing with it.

Of course, there is also the possibility that she is just best mates with Maxine, after all they are both from Manchester and have a high public profile.....and it was an unconscious and automatic response to a post from a friend.

What it does show, for me, is that the left does still have some very deep fracture lines...and for the ideologically pure ( the far left), the Issue of Israel/the Palestinians still dominates quite a lot of the discourse.

Bigvig - there's no wall around Gaza - there is a border fence, which is quite a common thing to have between countries. Much of the border is with Egypt, of course, which you'd know if you'd ever been there or looked at a map. And there's no prohibition on importing baby formula - what a bizarre idea. It is the readiness to believe this sort of b about Israel, without applying 5 seconds of reasoned thought, that causes many to doubt the motives of activists like Maxine...

And I guess you would say the same for Islamophobes, racists etc

Surely you can see some parallels between the left calling out people for racism and Islamophobia for those who criticise aspects of Islamic practice, or for those critiquing the idea that there is such a thing as 'white privilege'; and the accusations of anti-semitism hiding behind some critique of Israel/Israeli policy, which is levelled at the left?

I have a lot of issues with the methods of the Israeli government and military regarding the Palestinian people. I am anti-Semitic. I am anti-violence. Especially disproportionate violence. Also there imprisonments of conscientious objectors. That there is a difference between being anti-Semitic and disagreeing with Israel on some of its policy. However, as this is such a sensitive issue (especially for the Labour Party) she really should have fact checked and considered not sharing the article. I think mostly she's a bit thick.

Sorry! I meant I am NOT anti-semetic I am anti violence. Just as well I'm not the MP of anything!!

It is a lot safer if people keep off twitter as we are now in a McCarthyist era where if you say the wrong things or express the "wrong" view massive consequences flow.

Luckily more generally in the UK we still mostly have freedom of speech. you are allowed to say you are white and not a racist and that you support Israel and are not anti semitic and that you are against Palestinian or any other violence. I could never be a politician - it is too risky and difficult. it is not worth the effort.

Obviously I am delighted the left are getting hoist by their own petard on this.

There seems to be a group of people in the UK who want everyone constantly to fall on their sword apologising and saying mea culpa, I am totally wrong because I am [ add the phrase concerned]. Hopefully it will pass over soon and people will remain free to express their own views.

Meanwhile we may be able to take advantage of it by when we go to pubs saying we are Rebecca LB or we self declare as black today and are Mr XYZ or whatever so big state cannot track our movements.

If only the Tories would now sort out the racism in their party.

The Tories are not racist (and nor is the Labour party). Most people in the UK aren't.

@Xenia

The Tories are not racist (and nor is the Labour party). Most people in the UK aren't.

I completely disagree. And while people are complacent about it, things will never change.

The only way in which feminists need to concern themselves with this intra-party story is to assess whether RLB was more harshly judged for her dog-whistle anti-Semitism and/or her political incompetence than her male peers would be.

I think the fact that an anti-women activist, who purported to be a feminist and wanted women removed from the party, is no longer in the Shadow Cabinet is a worthwhile feminist discussion in itself though.

amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/10/tory-councillors-accused-of-racist-posts-on-social-media

The Tories are holding their own investigation into racism in their party but it should be independent and not done by insiders.

Black man killed by white policeman in America = it’s all the Jews fault

Oh come off it. Israel sells a lot of training to police forces around the world. You are saying that any scrutiny of this is antisemitic?

When I criticise Myanmar, does that mean I am anti-Buddhist?

If only the Tories would now sort out the racism in their party

What we have seen recently is Hindus being consigned to the category of 'privileged' by some on the left( and some pretty despicable attitudes aimed at Priti Patel when she recounted her own experiences of racism, in parliament).

I'm no fan of Priti Patel but the accusations of 'weaponising her own experiences of racism, in a supposed attempt to minimise that suffered by black women, was sheer hypocrisy of the highest order.

By responding to anti Semitism in Labour by talking about racism within the Conservative Party, you engage in whataboutism. It’s the same tactic used by those who oppose the BLM movement. It’s interesting to see who does that.

When I criticise Myanmar, does that mean I am anti-Buddhist

No, but if you made criticism of Myanmar a central plank of your political movement, and used every opportunity to keep turning the conversation back to that, then people might start to wonder why?

Criticism of Israel is a central plank of left ideology. It is because the left associates Israel with imperialism, and with close relationship with the U.S - both shibboleths of the left.

Correct, Justhad - and if you suggested that Buddhists were often suspect due to their possible dual loyalty, that there was a sinister Buddhist lobby conspiring to subvert British politics, and if a large proportion of Buddhist MP in your party had been hounded out, people might indeed think there was a degree of prejudice involved.

@chomalungma - am I calling you anti-Semitic? I believe your attitudes show that if you have not reached the final destination you have at least willingly boarded that bus. You repeatedly state inaccuracies and when people correct you ignore them, or ignore questions. You haven’t answered my question about whether or not you are concerned with Canada, America, and Australia being “occupiers”. A lot of Indigenous people where I live refer to non-Indigenous citizens as settlers. Yet we don’t seem to attract the world’s attention and criticism. I wonder why that is.

And FYI, going to Auschwitz does not magically cleanse anyone of anti-Semitism. It does not exist so that people can go and claim it as a free pass. How distasteful. Also, see “I can’t be racist, I have a black friend.”

@Coyoacan

Black man killed by white policeman in America = it’s all the Jews fault

Oh come off it. Israel sells a lot of training to police forces around the world. You are saying that any scrutiny of this is antisemitic?

When I criticise Myanmar, does that mean I am anti-Buddhist?

Can you describe the training they provide in placing an officer's knee on the neck of a suspected criminal? And can you provide evidence they have trained the force in question? Links from credible sources, please.

You are alleging they train other countries in how to kill. If you can't provide evidence then yes, you probably are engaging in casual anti-Semitism.

I think the Asian rise in the UK politically at least illustrates how for the UK it is educational level (and thus class) more than skin colour which determines how you get on.

I was sorting out my childhood certificates file today and saw the 1960s elocution lessons and exams certificates my parents paid for in Newcastle. I wonder if that and my exam results as much determined how I did as that I am white with freckles all over.

am I calling you anti-Semitic? I believe your attitudes show that if you have not reached the final destination you have at least willingly boarded that bus

And FYI, going to Auschwitz does not magically cleanse anyone of anti-Semitism. It does not exist so that people can go and claim it as a free pass. How distasteful. Also, see “I can’t be racist, I have a black friend

Do you even understand why I have been to Auschwitz? To the places in Prague where whole communities were taken away? To the museum in Washington?

I went to learn the stories. To understand how a people can be othered. How people can be taught to hate, to turn a blind eye, to try to understand how humans can turn on their friends, on other humans and to pay tribute to those people, to learn and to play my part everyday in ensuring that hate and prejudice against a group will never win.

I have seen with my own eyes what hate of a group leads to. I know how easy it can be to turn on a group. It's happening right now and people can't even see it. It's so easy and that's what Auschwitz and other places show us.

That's what I learnt with all these experiences. And I will do my bit everyday to ensure that it does not happen.

Oh - and anti-semitism? You think I am going down the path just because I call Israel occupiers of the West Bank?

The definition and examples are here:

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.

Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.

Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.

Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).

Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.

Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.

Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Please can you point out where you think I have been anti-semitic on here?

@chomalungma I'm sorry but the response of "Israel invaded the West Bank in 1967" is completely irrelevant given the agreements that came afterward (in particular the Oslo Accords), and seems to be a deliberate attempt at posting half a 'fact'. In the midst of a war, the West Bank was captured... from the Jordanians, who captured it in 1948. In war, this happens. Have you ever lived in Palestine? Or Israel? Or anywhere with lots of war? If not, there are plentiful sources of military doctrine which will demonstrate how and why territory is captured or released.

I'm sorry but the response of "Israel invaded the West Bank in 1967" is completely irrelevant given the agreements that came afterward (in particular the Oslo Accords), and seems to be a deliberate attempt at posting half a 'fact'. In the midst of a war, the West Bank was captured... from the Jordanians, who captured it in 1948. In war, this happens. Have you ever lived in Palestine? Or Israel? Or anywhere with lots of wa

I know that the situation is complicated and there is a lot that I do not know - and people see things from different view points. It's also complicated by what the area was like even before WW2 and the creation of Israel after WW2. There have also been a lot of conflicts and various agreements etc.

@chomalungma Thank you for saying how complicated that is: acknowledgement of this is critical. The reason 'occupation' as a term is linked to anti-semitism, is because of its widespread use by anti-semites to describe the Israeli position in Palestine. It is often used by those with little to no knowledge of the actual situation, or the opinions of those who actually reside in Palestine.

'Occupation' is not technically correct as they do not control that territory, and while I acknowledge that it's often used as a broader term to capture psychological and political domination, it has been too often co-opted by those who seek to criticise Israel as a Jewish state.