Mermaids response to JK Rowling

[SapphosRock]

Interesting to read the other side:

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/dear-jk-rowling/

Since 2010, If predators have used the provisions of the Equality Act 2010 to gain access to women’s spaces, we are not aware of it

This never happens . They’ve weaselled their words by saying “used provisions of Equality act”. But they know.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

1. Since 2010, If predators have used the provisions of the Equality Act 2010 to gain access to women’s spaces, we are not aware of it,

Hello! Karen White!! And all those other transwomen housed in the female estate in prison.

They lost me at the study based on social media comments!
All we have to do is look at the abuse JKR and other women have received to understand why women feel unable to leave what would be considered a negative comment!

delt

They actually ignored all the submissions for the consultation re the hampstead ponds. Such was the reality no one actually agreed with mixing the ponds they had to find a way to invalidate the responses

I've just read some of the Gender Recognition Act. First it's talking about gender, which I didn't think was even acknowledged legally anywhere. So I don't understand why they've used the word gender. (Perhaps an argument for another day?)

Second, it looks like someone needs to be committed to changing their gender by living as that gender for two years and taking to a doctor or psychologist. That doesn't seem complicated to me?

No evidence? Katie dolatowski, who sexually assaulted two little girls in women's toilets, was 18

Evidence from a number of studies also points to the fact that transgender people are far more likely to be in same-sex relationships than their cisgender peers, negating the homophobia argument completely. The National Transgender Discrimination Survey of 2015 reported’ the sexual orientation of the sample demonstrates a diverse spectrum of sexual orientations among transgender and gender non-conforming people.
Among respondents, 23% reported a lesbian or gay sexual orientation; 24% identified as bisexual. The studyy^ continues:

I think this section is interesting. They are negating the homophobia argument by pointing out that people who transition are more likely to be in same sex relationships.

Now, it's hard to be sure, but I think they mean same gender relationships when they say same sex. Taking their figures, if 47% of transitioners end up gay or bi, the remaining 53% are straight.

But a straight relationship where one person has transitioned is factually a homosexual relationship.

So, given that transitioning doesn't seem to change the sex a person is attracted to, 50% of transitioners by those figures have gone from gay to straight.

Only about 5-10% of the general population are gay, so that's a high rate of conversion to my mind.

@ThisIsMeOrIsIt

I'm just starting to get into reading about both sides of this debate, as I feel I align myself with JKR but do want to know what both arguments are. This is the first Mermaids piece I have read and clearly I need to read more from both sides as it has left me somewhat confused.

The article about biological sex doesn't necessarily support their argument, as I feel the examples they're talking about, the SRY "popping" over the the X chromosome for example, must be fairly far and few between, surely? It doesn't state that this happens frequently, just that it can, and in fact gives no data on how often these kinds of things biologically happen.

I also feel they gloss over the whole safe space thing. It seems they're saying that for approximately 0.52% of the UK population that are trans, women must allow people with penises into changing rooms, locker rooms etc. Is that right? They say that no-one needs a birth certificate to prove entry to a changing room (can't remember the exact words) - surely this means that any man can turn up to a changing room and go in, saying it's discriminatory to say he can't. Have I got that right?

I'm sure I've got it wrong - happy to be corrected so I can understand this debate properly.

No. You have it exactly right.

I see alias has already posted it but I was quite surprised they linked to that study to somehow claim that "This research shows that trans women are no more a threat to women than other cisgender women".

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

It says that the MTFs retained a male pattern of criminality.

Mermaids will no doubt be watching this so here you go, watch this video

This is what we should be promoting, not your hideous medical "identity" euphemism for self harm and lies.

Again, I have to ask, are they lying or thick? If they are ignorant about trans issues - criminality, processes, legalities to name but three areas - perhaps they should not be running a charity for "trans children"?

Also, if the head of Mermaids is ignorant about data security, despite being an IT consultant, perhaps they shouldn't be handling sensitive data, and allowing confidential emails including names and identifying information about their trans child clients and families to be made public on the internet? (This was a year ago and still afaics no outcome from the ICO).

@Aesopfable

Storme was a fucking lesbian

The historical transing of people who are no longer alive is fucking disgraceful.

Were they even referring to her? I thought as a women (yes they recognise her sex) they have ignored her role in favour of a man - Marsha something - a drag queen who called himself a man. Who wasn’t there.

Maybe they weren’t ... perhaps I’ll unroll my shirt sleeves.

I have to go now but thats 7 points and I’m not even halfway down the statement.
If Mermaids just stuck to being a support charity for families rather than turning itself into an insidious lobby group then they’d probably be left alone without much scrutiny. All the families I have spoken to who use Mermaids are cultish in their support for it. It’s worrying.

Channel 4 Fact Check - JKR is correct, Pink News (and so therefore Mermaids as well) is wrong

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-rowling-right-that-hormones-or-surgery-not-required-for-legal-gender-change

"For our part, all we are asking is that you meet with transgender young people and listen to them with an open mind and an open heart."

Again, that's simply not true is it? Mermaids are asking people to believe all sorts of things that they don't and can't believe. They are asking to get laws changed. They are asking for male-born teens to be allowed to sleep, change etc in the same area as female-born teens. etc

It seems they're saying that for approximately 0.52% of the UK population that are trans

The last time I checked (which was about 3 years ago) the figure was actually 0.003%, yes that is zero point zero zero three per cent.

Even if you include all the thousands ofyoung girls who have been groomed I don't think you'd get to .5%

* For our part, all we are asking is that you meet with transgender young people and listen to them with an open mind and an open heart."

This is very manipulative. ^^

@ThisIsMeOrIsIt

I've just read some of the Gender Recognition Act. First it's talking about gender, which I didn't think was even acknowledged legally anywhere. So I don't understand why they've used the word gender. (Perhaps an argument for another day?)

Second, it looks like someone needs to be committed to changing their gender by living as that gender for two years and taking to a doctor or psychologist. That doesn't seem complicated to me?

First what might "living as a woman" look like, or entail? Second there are many places committed to telling a person how to speed up this process. Third what does a grc matter when one cannot ask to see it. Fourth a grc at the moment is useless for most as all they have to do is say the magic words "I am woman" and tadaaa with magic and unicorns somehow is a woman. Nope I dont get it either.

Living as a woman in Scotland anyway is having a female name and pronoun, and changing your gas bill to reflect this new reality. Oddly the Scottish definition of a woman does not include adult human females. Hows that work you ask. I shrug and say magic, unicorns, stunning and brave.

To address the core of your point, trans rights do not come at the expense of women’s rights.

Liars and charlatans.

@Aesopfable

Storme was a fucking lesbian

The historical transing of people who are no longer alive is fucking disgraceful.

Were they even referring to her? I thought as a women (yes they recognise her sex) they have ignored her role in favour of a man - Marsha something - a drag queen who called himself a man. Who wasn’t there.

Yes the transwash version is that Marsha was a trans woman and leading the riot like Marianne.

He - for he said he was he - wasn’t the. Storme was a woman a even through there have been attempts to transwash her too.

Oh and the statues on NY to the riots? Both men.

I was quite surprised they linked to that study to somehow claim that "This research shows that trans women are no more a threat to women than other cisgender women".

This particular lie is shocking. To claim a piece of scientific research supports your position when it does the exact opposite cannot be an error.

Facts aren’t their forte.

Mermaids are dodgy as anything and I'm amazed that even well-meaning intelligent pro-trans-rights people can't find a better trans charity to support. Why do they demand purity from anyone else but Mermaids are allowed to get away with whatever they want? SG has no medical background, and HI took a trans woman to court FFS. SG has come out with awful stuff in the past and had to backtrack - the usual things about knowing her child was a girl because they played with dolls.

It baffles me that my woke (not using that derivatively) friends don't see or don't care, presumably because it's children involved. Which should mean we demand far higher standards, not lower!

It’s like Kids Company. Personality cult, boo boo saviours of the downtrodden and abused...

Looking forward to the day that Mermaids is taken to task by the Government.