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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Mermaids response to JK Rowling

438 replies

SapphosRock · 13/06/2020 08:44

Interesting to read the other side:

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/dear-jk-rowling/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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jhuizinga · 13/06/2020 16:49

Lord - I think the photo is of the actor who plays Cormoran Strike in the (excellent) TV dramatisation of the Robert Galbraith books, Tom Burke

Wolfgirrl · 13/06/2020 16:55

The response from Mermaids didn't even address the heart of JK Rowling's blog, which was that trans women cannot be women because sex is real.

Blackdoggotmytonguestill · 13/06/2020 16:55

Does anyone know, out of interest, if a suspended twitter account eventually crumbles and gives the bastards their phone number, do they reinstate the deleted posts? (I was arguing with Stella Creasy - no idea if any of the unreadable stuff is mine.)
I’m so hugely irritated by this whole bloody thing.
Mermaids are absolute charlatans.

ItsLateHumpty · 13/06/2020 17:02

Sorry @OvaHere and @bishopgiggles - totes old eyes and tired brain not processing well today! Cheers for the links and putting 2+2 together for me Blush

Melroses · 13/06/2020 17:21

drive.google.com/file/d/1jAiGCvljOb-4XgZB08JtLDikTf8FeGQH/view

The changes to the Mermaids statement.

Gncq · 13/06/2020 17:53

Are there some high profile transwomen who have a more moderate, dare I say 'woman' centred view on the whole debate

Do you mean JKR specifically or the "big debate?"

Wrt "the big debate" there's

Kristina Harrison
Debbie Hayton
Blaire White
Miranda Yardley
Fionne Orlander

Many more, but these are the transwoman I can remember who definitely get it.

They're all worth following on Twitter/looking up in general.

Lordfrontpaw · 13/06/2020 18:06

Cassie? I’ve seen them on twitter also Scot in the US (sorry I am crap with names).

Lordfrontpaw · 13/06/2020 18:07

Scott newgent (Apt name) and Cassie Curtis.

Leakinglikeacolander · 13/06/2020 19:45

Thanks @Gncq

titchy · 13/06/2020 21:39

that the Mermaid’s response is reasoned, measured, and empathic.

But it's inaccurate and full of falsehoods. It has the veneer of measure, reason and empathy, but it's anything but.

To someone unfamiliar with the topic it seems sensible and just. Who can read a sentence 'We see no evidence that trans girls are a threat to other girls in any way.' And not come to the conclusion that those who say trans girls ARE a threat are wrong. Except of course, there's bucketloads of evidence detailing the threat of trans girls and TW to girls. Bucketloads.

Who can argue with an organisation that supports trans rights? Well no one supporting JKR says trans people shouldn't have rights either. But we disagree that those rights should mean the removal if the rights women.

'Trans women are already entitled to use the facilities that align with their gender identity, and those protections have been in place since the Equality Act 2010.' Eek - so that's a problem - it's illegal to stop trans women using facilities that align with their gender. Except of course, the EA 2010 says no such thing - in fact it says the opposite.

What about 'Since 2010, If predators have used the provisions of the Equality Act 2010 to gain access to women’s spaces, we are not aware of it, nor has evidence of such a pattern ever been cited by those who would dearly love to consolidate one of their most common attacks on trans rights. Neither has self-identification, adopted in many nations worldwide, led to abuse of systems. ' Gosh well it sounds like JKR is making a lot of fuss about nothing. Except of course, there are lots of predatory males who have done just that - all very well publicised (conveniently for you and others also listed on a MN thread - search for 'this never happens').

It's the easiest thing in the world to write a letter which appears reasonable and thoughtful when you misrepresent facts and ignore evidence to the contrary. I'd like to hope most people with some experience of the world could recognise that though. I assume you read newspapers and recognise they have particular political viewpoints and therefore don't take them at face value - do the same with Mermaids.

titchy · 13/06/2020 21:41

Ignore me - should have posted that on the other thread Blush

Datun · 14/06/2020 01:07

Who can read a sentence 'We see no evidence that trans girls are a threat to other girls in any way

It's really unfortunate for them that people might search 'trans girls' on twitter.

Warning: NSFW

NotBadConsidering · 14/06/2020 01:14

Do none of those adult women who work at Mermaids remember being a teenage girl? Do they honestly look back at that time and think they would have been happy with a teenage boy in their single sex space?

Someone claimed the Mermaids letter was “empathetic”, but not to girls as a whole of course.

LockdownLump · 14/06/2020 01:38

So badly written. Made me feel bored

sourdoughismyreligion · 14/06/2020 01:58

There are many accounts and growing research showing that hormone therapy does not necessarily render a person infertile, although it has been suggested that taking oestrogen or testosterone can, over time, lead to a complete loss of fertility. This however has not been proven in any clinical trial.

Has any clinical trial taken place to determine the long term physical impacts of hormone therapy?

TehBewilderness · 14/06/2020 03:08

@Ickabog

We see no evidence that trans girls are a threat to other girls in any way.

Very telling that they choose to mention trans girls, as apposed to trans women...

A lot of adult transgender males identify as trans girls, not women. One particularly infamous one identifies as six years old.

Also too and besides...
SAY HER NAME! STORME DELARVERIE!

NotBadConsidering · 14/06/2020 03:13

I’ve often wondered about Stefonknee if he STILL identifies as a 6 year old girl, as in perpetually, or if he was 6 in December 2015 and now sees himself as a 10 year old girl. 🤔

Because, you know, one of those ideas is clearly more logical than the other 😆

Lordfrontpaw · 14/06/2020 08:33

I wonder if their ‘sibling’ still enjoy having a sister? Didn’t they advise the gvt?

Xanthangum · 14/06/2020 12:03

@Lordfrontpaw

I wonder who the bloke in the photo is?

It's Tom Burke as Cormoran Strike

www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2019/strike

hazandduck · 14/06/2020 17:10

Oh my word that is hilarious @OvaHere! I bet Mermaids were fuming 😂

I shared a post on Instagram back in December in support of Maya and JK Rowling and recently have been absolutely inundated with comments from a persistent poster trying to educate me. I stopped trying to reason with him when he told me I have blood on my hands. It is beyond absurd. I did actually get quite tearful after when talking to DH about it, (he is quietly supportive but usually tells me to step away from it when I get too upset) because I keep doubting myself, but I cannot buy in to this lie that you can change sex. When I talk about it I feel like people think I am hysterical or a bigot. Why is being perceived as a transphobe so much worse than being sexist which is what gender identities are?

These boards keep me sane. Why does no one in real life get it?

Stealhsquirrelnutkin · 14/06/2020 22:38

Does anyone know, out of interest, if a suspended twitter account eventually crumbles and gives the bastards their phone number, do they reinstate the deleted posts? (I was arguing with Stella Creasy - no idea if any of the unreadable stuff is mine.)

I'm not sure about them reinstating deleted posts, but I do know that they accept any phone number that accepts texts. I didn't want to give them my real phone number so I put a fiver on a free sim card and used that number to 'verify' my account so that they unlocked it. Once I could log in again I went straight into settings and deleted the phone number, if they ask in future I'll do the same thing again.

TehBewilderness · 14/06/2020 22:53

@hazandduck

Oh my word that is hilarious *@OvaHere*! I bet Mermaids were fuming 😂

I shared a post on Instagram back in December in support of Maya and JK Rowling and recently have been absolutely inundated with comments from a persistent poster trying to educate me. I stopped trying to reason with him when he told me I have blood on my hands. It is beyond absurd. I did actually get quite tearful after when talking to DH about it, (he is quietly supportive but usually tells me to step away from it when I get too upset) because I keep doubting myself, but I cannot buy in to this lie that you can change sex. When I talk about it I feel like people think I am hysterical or a bigot. Why is being perceived as a transphobe so much worse than being sexist which is what gender identities are?

These boards keep me sane. Why does no one in real life get it?

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do. 2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime. 3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and "selfish". 4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified. 5th rule of misogyny: Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

It seems complicated when they come at you with the DARVO, and the gaslighting, and the forced teaming, and the projection, but what that really ought to do for us is alert us to the fact that an abuser has targeted us. Those are the tools of the abuser.

Blackdoggotmytonguestill · 14/06/2020 23:07

Fab. Thank you. The whole doxxing thing pisses me off and I trust the twitter administration even less than I do mn interns.

hazandduck · 14/06/2020 23:35

Thanks @TehBewilderness those rules are so maddeningly true! Not sure what DARVO stands for (off to google). I just can’t believe the shit this TRA was coming out with. He said my movement is sexist and supports men...my movement, as in feminism?? I thought about blocking him (he posted about 70 comments on my one post) but then I thought people who see it may just realise how aggressive some TRAs can be. My family saw it and they don’t usually comment on the whole trans debate but they were outraged.