Munroe Bergdorf makes George Floyd/Black Lives Matter all about Munroe Bergdorf

[GiantKitten]

What MB was cancelled for was not what this is all about, was it?

twitter.com/MunroeBergdorf/status/1267460238678069249?s=20

What was she cancelled for? All I can find is that she spoke out against white supremacy and was dropped. So based on that it seems fair enough she would be angry at L’Oréal posting that now.

Munroe is a black person who feels aggrieved about being thrown under the bus for speaking out about racism that is what black lives matter campaign is about personal experience. You don't have to agree with MB if you don't want to but they are allowed to share experiences.

@Peapod29

What was she cancelled for? All I can find is that she spoke out against white supremacy and was dropped. So based on that it seems fair enough she would be angry at L’Oréal posting that now.

Munroe said white people were the most oppressive and violent in the world and responsible for all the bad things that have ever happened and that our entire existence is drenched in racism.

Bergdorf's original comments about white privilege, etc. were well made if understandably angry, and one of the few things I feel sympathy with Bergdorf over. Loreal were wrong to drop Bergdorf for this.

But Bergdorf does have form for me-railing other people's issues (pussy hats, anyone?)

This is what Bergdorf wrote that led to them being dropped by L'Oreal:

Honestly I don't have energy to talk about the racial violence of white people any more. Yes ALL white people. Because most of ya'll don't even realise or refuse to acknowledge that your existence, privilege and success as a race is built on the backs, blood and death of people of colour. Your entire existence is drenched in racism. From micro-aggressions to terrorism, you guys built the blueprint for this s.
Come see me when you realise that racism isn't learned, it's inherited and consciously or unconsciously passed down through privilege. Once white people begin to admit that their race is the most violent and oppressive force of nature on Earth… then we can talk. Until then stay acting shocked about how the world continues to stay f** at the hands of your ancestors and your heads that remain buried in the sand with hands over your ears.

I’d be pissed if i was MB as well

Oh, I thought there was going to be some other revelation here of her having done something awful. Of course it’s what the current situation is about. Racism.

Yeah, this is the one time I'll agree with Bergdorf, the public response to that tweet was ridiculous.

"Honestly I don't have energy to talk about the racial violence of white people any more. Yes ALL white people".

That's not a well made argument. It's goady, offensive and insulting, and if you are the face of an international cosmetics company you'd have to be really up your own arse to think you can say this about their customers and not get sacked.

It could be seen as goady but MB isn't the only one saying it, they have a right to say it and not get dropped, and it's something a lot of people need to listen to imo. I agree with MB in this case.

Munroe is right to be annoyed here, I think.

I have a smidge of sympathy for Bergdorf on this issue, though as ever it's phrased in such an unnecessarily aggressive way that it seems slightly odd that anyone's surprised that a large corp wouldn't want someone swearing and insulting and being deliberately offensive.

I agree with some of what MB's saying, but it's not really going to work with L'Oreal, is it? I mean, who expects a huge pharmaceutical multinational to be genuinely subversive?

Probably a deeply seated issue with wokedom - trying to sanitise what naturally is disruptive doesn't quite fit in the system it's trying to win at.

Yep, MB actually has a point here. MB appropriates women's oppression to centre MBself and is rightly criticized for it.

But MB is a person of colour, and therefore completely entitled to speak about racism and the systemic privilege of white people. You might not find it a comfortable topic, but complaining about how well made the argument is, or how MB shouldn't be angry or some shit, is exactly what men do when they tell women to shut up too.

So, mark the moment, cos it won't happen again unless MB drops the misogyny, but I completely agree with MB's anger and points on this topic.

Fair enough Bergdorf's qualified to talk about racism.

This, though:

From micro-aggressions to terrorism, you guys built the blueprint for this shit.

History goes further back than the founding of America. White people didn't invent this shit all by ourselves. We inherited this shit from our predecessors, who in the not-too-distant past weren't white.

We get this shit from the patriarchal monotheistic religions of the middle east; and I disagree with the implication that white people sprang out of nowhere with evil pre-programmed in.

Come see me when you realise that racism isn't learned, it's inherited and consciously or unconsciously passed down through privilege.

I'm surprised they have been cancelled. I thought the concept of all 'white' people being inherently racist and 'white privilege' being the original sin that stains the soul and therefore makes anyone with a light skin colour irredeemable was a very popular one these days.

If racism is inherent to white people, why should they bother changing their ways? How does one change something they are naturally predisposed to?
If white people are racially predisposed to certain things, does that mean other 'races' are also predisposed to certain things and behaviours? What might those things and behaviours be?
And what about when 'non-white' races oppress and exploit other 'non-white' races?

It's an asshole comment, IMO.

The original comment was stupid, historically idiotic, and racist, so I'm not surprised by the response or L'Oreal at the time. It really doesn't matter to me if lots of people are saying it now, it's pure idpolitics and it is a way of thinking that is contributing substantially to the direction of racism in the 21st century.

It was also not the kind of activism that is normally going to be compatible with being the face of a cosmetic company. That's not saying models can't support causes, but radical activism and that kind of work aren't necessarily ever going to be easy bedfellows. That's any kind of radical activism and I think most adults understand that.

AS I understand it, the criticism of this current comment is that after this death that was quite horrible on the face of it, and which had brought the focus on police violence and race as a whole, MB is somehow equating the topic with being dropped from a (very well paid) job that required a good public profile for acting like an asshat. Anyone who is an actual victim of inappropriate police violence might look askance at that.

@MashedPotatoBrainz

"Honestly I don't have energy to talk about the racial violence of white people any more. Yes ALL white people".

That's not a well made argument. It's goady, offensive and insulting, and if you are the face of an international cosmetics company you'd have to be really up your own arse to think you can say this about their customers and not get sacked.

I agree with this comment by Munroe being goady. Her point is valid and I support her all the way in terms of her right to speak about racism and white privilege. But the language of racial “violence” applied to “ALL” white people - no.

I have allowed for the fact that it isn’t for me to police how black people speak about racism and they don’t have to be nice in doing so... but I really think those comments were a very bad wording of a very good point.

I can't stand MB but Munroe does have a point here and I am happy for them to speak out about it tbh.

What does make me laugh is that MB tells white people that they cannot possibly understand what life is like as a black person, and they are right. And yet that is exactly what Munroe has done to women. And not only has Munroe done it to women, Munroe has then preached to women that they are the ones doing womaning and feminism wrong. Can you imagine a white person painting their face black and then acting in all manner of stereotypical ways, and then telling Munroe that they are just as a legitimate voice for black people as Munroe is? It would be fucking outrageous! I am just totally astonished that no one see the hypocrisy, but that is a different issue I guess.

So, mark the moment, cos it won't happen again unless MB drops the misogyny, but I completely agree with MB's anger and points on this topic.

Yeah same here

I agree with floralbunting that Munroe is completely entitled to speak about racism and the systemic privilege of white people. You might not find it a comfortable topic, but complaining about how well made the argument is, or how MB shouldn't be angry or some shit, is exactly what men do when they tell women to shut up too

Have really warmed to her on Instagram recently too, not sure what the OP is on about?

I honestly don't think, as a person whiter than chalk, I feel even slightly comfortable telling a black person they are being too goady in their criticism of systemic racism.

I agree that activism and corporate advertising are going to be oil and water when it comes down to the wire, but I think I would always respect the person who came down on the side of activism over toeing the corporate line.

And anyway, MBs point in the most recent tweet is that L'oreal are suddenly parroting the speaking about privilege spiel because it's fashionable, having jettisoned MB for inelegantly talking about it when it was less likely to add coin to the L'oreal coffers. That's the issue - that the big corporation are now claiming their virtue points to profit, but the actual black person who said the same thing some years ago who they sacked, was too rude about it.

Nope, fuck that. I won't tell an angry woman to be nice about her experience of oppression while a big corporation makes some dollar over branding things with IWD logos, so I won't say that to a black person.

You can dismiss it as 'identity politics', but the excesses of IdPol do not mean that those who have experienced the shitty end of the stick should have to shut up about it.

But MB is a person of colour, and therefore completely entitled to speak about racism and the systemic privilege of white people.

Perfectly entitled to speak out. And L'Oreal are perfectly entitled to decide they don't want to work with MB because they don't want to antagonise their customer base.

I think MB has a point here too and as a person of colour has every right to make it.

and yes @JoeExoticsEyebrowRing exactly that too!

Perfectly entitled to speak out. And L'Oreal are perfectly entitled to decide they don't want to work with MB because they don't want to antagonise their customer base.

And perfectly entitled to adopt those antagonistic views when it suddenly works for the business, too. I'll reserve the right to agree with MB that it's total self serving hypocrisy, though.

MB tells white people that they cannot possibly understand what life is like as a black person, and they are right. And yet that is exactly what Munroe has done to women. And not only has Munroe done it to women, Munroe has then preached to women that they are the ones doing womaning and feminism wrong

Indeed.