Munroe Bergdorf makes George Floyd/Black Lives Matter all about Munroe Bergdorf

[GiantKitten]

What MB was cancelled for was not what this is all about, was it?

twitter.com/MunroeBergdorf/status/1267460238678069249?s=20

I like the re-framing of the quote, ThePankhurstConnection! Brilliantly exposes the double standards and hypocrisy.

Me being me, I'd still question and criticise the idea that 'misogyny isn't learned, it's inherited and consciously or unconsciously passed down through privilege'.

I'd say that what Bergdorf is describing there is something being learned.

No wonder people think that MN is a bastion of 'white feminism'.

You can tell people's skin colour from their posts on Mumsnet? That's impressive!

I’m not interested in Bergdorf’s posting history. I’m interested in Bergdorf’s post about L’Oréal in regards to race. Bergdorf wants people reading to care about Bergdorf first, then #blacklivesmatter second, and punish L’Oréal for treating Bergdorf so badly, in a way that meant “the world’s press” were mean. It’s narcissistic to make L’Oréal’s post about how hurt Bergdorf was when the contract was terminated, and it is narcissistic to claim “the world’s press” gives a toss about Bergdorf. And it’s a shame because there is a point to be made about double standards, but Bergdorf’s posting history means nothing when Bergdorf reverted to narcissistic type for this post.

And L’Oréal are no better.

NotBadConsidering so what do you think Munroe should have said about Loreal's hypocritical virtue signalling then? Or should they just have left it, and said nothing, as anything else would be 'narcissistic'? Obviously Munroe going to make that particular issue about them, because it was them who was sacked!

How about

“It’s not about me, but this makes me angry: L’Oréal need to look at their own record of treating people who speak out about race. They can do better. We can all do better. If you care about #blacklivesmatter then directly support those who are protesting and putting their lives at risk in doing so, because that’s more worthwhile than choosing to buy make up from another company, which means fuck all in the grand scheme of what’s going on in the world right now”

Make a point about hypocrisy, point out who actually matters, support those who actually need it and don’t waste energy on pathetic corporate boycotts which make little difference. Done.

So what do you think Munroe should have said about Loreal's hypocritical virtue signalling then? Or should they just have left it, and said nothing, as anything else would be 'narcissistic'?

Or maybe Munroe should have displayed some integrity in the first place by refusing to take money from a multinational that makes its profit from the exploitation of women, and of black women in particular?

How difficult can this be? Why are people missing the obvious here?

.. No wonder people think that MN is a bastion of 'white feminism'.

Which "people"?

You?

I too like what you did with that quote Pankhurst..

I agree with everything notbad has said on this thread.

Wow, people telling black people what they 'should' be saying with regards to BLM. And saying that if black people talk about themselves in relation to a specific issue (in this case Loreal's virtue signalling) , it's 'narcissistic'. It's all a little familiar isn't it?

Yes, Munroe is hypocritical in more ways than one, always has been. But I find it astonishing that people are criticising Munroe for talking about themselves on an issue that was literally about them, and then stating what they think Munroe should be saying as a black person.

I still agree with notbad

Wow, people telling black people what they 'should' be saying with regards to BLM

Well, you shouldn’t ask then [shrug]. I’m not going to apologise for offering a suggestion when you directly asked me for one. I have no interest in telling Bergdorf what to say, Bergdorf clearly wouldn’t be interested in my opinion.

It’s narcissistic to talk about how people should care about Bergdorf losing a cosmetics contract first, before they then start caring about a political movement.

“Focus all your attention on the bad thing that L’Oréal did to me three years ago and make them pay!”

How altruistic...

@JoeExoticsEyebrowRing

I can't stand MB but Munroe does have a point here and I am happy for them to speak out about it tbh.

What does make me laugh is that MB tells white people that they cannot possibly understand what life is like as a black person, and they are right. And yet that is exactly what Munroe has done to women. And not only has Munroe done it to women, Munroe has then preached to women that they are the ones doing womaning and feminism wrong. Can you imagine a white person painting their face black and then acting in all manner of stereotypical ways, and then telling Munroe that they are just as a legitimate voice for black people as Munroe is? It would be fucking outrageous! I am just totally astonished that no one see the hypocrisy, but that is a different issue I guess.

This completely. Hypocrisy at its worst.

Googling Munroe Bergdorf and George Floyd brought up no results other than her criticism of L'Oréal.

But I find it astonishing that people are criticising Munroe for talking aboutthemselveson an issue that was literally aboutthem

Posters are perfectly entitled to criticise Bergdorf.

what do you think Munroe should have said

Wow, people telling black people what they 'should' be saying?

Don't be silly, now.

Black Lives Matter but if they're Tories, not so much.

On the "all white people" line: the bit that I object to is that MB is indulging the typical American habit of referring to "white people" when what they mean is "white Americans".

It's the unwillingness to accept that white Americans aren't actually representative of every light-skinned person in the world that I object to, and that there's a damned sight more to the "colonialist-shithead" aspects of European history than just the slave trade.

I agree with a PP that everyone gets a degree of racism programmed in though. Come from the culture. Happens to everyone, regardless of skin tone, just as everyone picks up the sexist mores of their culture whether they're male or female. And even if you actively reject the racist/sexist shit, it's still present in your head, just waiting to bias your thinking. Random book rec: Cordelia Fine's excellent on this.

But if everyone's picking up basic racism through the telly (thank you American media) then we need words to distinguish between that level of unconscious racism, and the overt shit. Because there is a world of difference between "picked up an unavoidable slight unconscious bias due to culture" and "proud member of the KKK".

I'm consistent on this one though; I think the same when it comes to sexism. People who declare they're not sexist at all are denying the possibility of having picked up an unconscious bias from their culture and it drives me up the wall - we all get programmed with this shit, men and women alike, and if we don't recognise that then we're never going to be able to stop doing it to the next generation.

If I said "All black teenagers are violent, knife weilding gang members" or "All Pakistani men are child abusers", then I would rightly be called "racist".
However, that is no different to MB saying "All white people are racist".
When we arrive here, we don't get a choice over our skin colour, what sex we are etc. - we just are.
This is not the US, we are nothing like the US.
Comments such as those made by MB are simply offensive and would probably increase racial tensions, drive people further apart.

Are with Tyro
There is a difference between having absorbed harmful messages and being actively hateful.

Ideally, you'd expect people of good faith to examine their thought processes for bias.
But - that takes a lot of work. Its intellectually demanding and time consuming and also depressing.
Then you have to do it for disabilism,, sexism, classism.
You also have to work hard to live ethically with regards to the environment, consume ethically with regards to animal rights, the treatment of workers abroad and the livelihoods of workers at home.
How likely is it that this will be or can be done?
Does it matter if some people think people think mildly disparaging thoughts, ie have picked it up in the ether, as long as they are not in a position of power to act on them, like a potential employer or police officer?

I'm not making an argument really, just grumbling from the sidelines.
Sorry for being depressing.

If this thread was about a white woman who was fired for calling out oppression by men And was then angry when that same employer publicly posted about support and caring for women at a time it’s ‘fashionable’, it would be unanimously in support for her

I wouldn't. If she had said what she said but substituted "all men" for all "white people" I think L'Oréal would still be entitled to sack her and I don't think it would preclude L'Oréal standing up on individual issues.

This idea that there is only one correct way to think or talk about these things, and it's self-evident, is really quite toxic.

I agree with you Goosefoot. It isn't that I think the ideas themselves are necessarily bad or wrong, it's this feeling behind them that there is always one right way to think on certain topics and that questioning it makes you a heretic.

The histories of black people being in the US and being in the UK are very different. That difference is being blurred more and more and I think it harms race relations in the UK.

That is worth pointing out, Antibles.

Hmmm, in my head asking the poster what Munroe should have said instead was kind of a rhetorical question, but I accept it didn't come across that way! But I do find it really uncomfortable that people would find it 'narcissistic' for a black person to talk about their own experience in this way.

Googling Munroe Bergdorf and George Floyd brought up no results other than her criticism of L'Oréal.

Look on Munroe's social media - they have been posting stuff about George Floyd, Ahmed Aubrey and Belly Mujinga in the last few days and weeks, and other stuff before that too.

The accusation that Munroe has only spoken out about BLM and racism in the context of their own personal issue with Loreal is totally unfair.

I haven't seen MB's social media, just what's been posted here. So fair enough, if MB has posted more about George Floyd, etc., that suggests a bit more awareness than just What L'Oreal Did.