Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Munroe Bergdorf makes George Floyd/Black Lives Matter all about Munroe Bergdorf

288 replies

GiantKitten · 02/06/2020 12:05

What MB was cancelled for was not what this is all about, was it?

twitter.com/MunroeBergdorf/status/1267460238678069249?s=20

OP posts:
DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 05/06/2020 01:29

So ALL white people are the problem? What a racist thing to say.

No. Because for a start racism is an institutional construct predicated on the idea that your skin colour is a predictor of your worth as a person. Racial prejudice is not the same because it’s not embedded in institutional power structures.

But white people, even those who individually bear no sense of superiority to black people. Every black person who doesn’t get a taxi because they are black, means more taxis for white people.

Every black person who doesn’t get a job, or even an interview because they have a “black name”, makes it easier for white people.

It’s the same way that all men benefit from male violence, while not being violent men themselves. A woman won’t take a job working at night, or in a remote location because she fears for her safety, which directly benefits men who now have more job opportunities.

And these are small examples, but multiplied over days and months and years and millions of lives, create enormous advantage for those who are most powerful.

And while I think Munroe Bergdorf is a twit, being a twit doesn’t mean you don’t experience systemic racism because of your skin colour. Being oppressed doesn’t mean you’re any kind of person, just that you’re a person living in an oppressive system.

So Bergdorf may not be sensible, they may be narcissistic, but they also have every right to speak about their own experiences of racism. And that experience is real, whatever their character.

The big corporations are neck deep in continuing racism and sexism. They profit directly from both systems, as they hope to profit from being seen to support racial equality.

I don’t like to think of myself as a racist, and hope that in my life I try and dismantle what I can reach, of structural racism. But I do benefit directly and indirectly from other people’s oppression, so I need to pay attention to some humility in my thinking.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 05/06/2020 02:39

Talking about the militarisation of the American police force is capitalism writ large. While America is involved in armed conflicts there is a huge and astonished lucrative market for military equipment.

Any de-escalation of conflict means that organisations making profits from war require new markets - and the police are an obvious one.

And once the tools are available, they will be used, given the police already work in deeply conservative and punitive contexts.

No conversation ever went:

“I see we have all those new armoured vehicles and big guns arrived.”

“Yep. Nice and shiny aren’t they?”

“They are. Look at pretty camo paint.
But let’s not use them today.”

“Yeah. Good call.”

bettybeans · 05/06/2020 02:57

Munroe's "this is what you dropped me for" (to paraphrase) isn't entirely fair. Iirc they dropped Munroe because comments were way too general in an "all white folks are racist" sort of way.

Absolutely not the same thing. Munroe is an opportunistic chancer.

I fully support BLM protests, for what it's worth. Munroe is much too full of ego and self promotion to be of any use to anyone right now. Hey Munroe, IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU. Deal with it ffs.

MoltenLasagne · 05/06/2020 08:10

Yes, the weaponisation of the police definitely contributes to the dynamic - personally seeing an armed police officer makes me feel jumpy not safer - but other countries also have armed police without a similar proportion of civilians killed.

The training variability in the US is extreme - some places have just 4 weeks of training, and a large issue is the hired in training from external companies with very questionable values.

In Minneapolis they've used Warrior training which uses "killology" techniques. It was banned by the Mayor after other police-related killings but the Police Unions continued to offer it in defiance saying “It’s not about killing, it’s about surviving” which illustrates the mindset pretty clearly.

www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/05/bob-kroll-minneapolis-warrior-police-training/

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/06/2020 09:17

This is really interesting to me - in general the police here and I suspect in the UK are trained to deescalate situations. That doesn't mean not having authority but it seems really very different than what the American police seem to encourage.

A few years ago there was a video taken on the subway in New York where someone who appeared to be under the influence of some substance/s started kicking off and two Swedish cops who happened to be there on holiday stepped in and deescalated, calming the person who'd been kicking off down and resolving the incident with no violence. The reason I remember this was because it got passed around with lots of Americans going "hey, how come our cops can't or won't do that?"

Childrenofthestones · 05/06/2020 10:46

Meanwhile here is another black man's point of view.

Childrenofthestones · 05/06/2020 16:11

^^^^
Where Larry Elder challenges Dave Rubin to
give examples of systematic racism in American society

Goosefoot · 05/06/2020 16:22

Elder is interesting. Not really on my political wavelength, but I appreciate that conservatives like him, or Sowell, make a point of looking at the numbers, at what is actually happening, to draw their conclusions. You see something similar with some leftist thinkers - Reed makes the point that if you start looking for racial or sex or other categories of differentiation, you will almost certainly find them, even if they are not actually the primary or causative differences.

I find this is stark contrast to the neoliberal race commentators like Coates, who seem to work from the opposite perspective, where you begin with a theory cause and then ask questions to elicit the information you expect.

LivingasaWoman · 09/06/2020 18:02

Yes Munroe has got her career back on track, Mermaids gets a nice donation and meanwhile another huge corporation has clawed back its woke credentials, and can sell more hair and make-up products to people. 'Because you're worth it' - must admit to feeling made to feel pretty worth-less today with all the woman-erasing shit going on. And MB has a beatific portrait on their Instagram - all head-tilty and glowy - doing the 'woman' thing far better than any of us.

And MB has 'written' (I put the word in inverted commas because MB has the clunkiest writing style) that Transphobia = White Supremacy. And if MB thinks that anyone who doesn't buy into TWAW is Transphobic, then she is accusing everyone of us of being a White Supremacist.

Allison Bailey that includes YOU.

I'm finding it hard to hold it together today.

Lordfrontpaw · 09/06/2020 18:35

MB thinks that anyone who doesn’t do what they say/want is transphobic and/or racist. Never misogynist though, which is odd considering...

Eastie77 · 18/06/2020 12:01

What does make me laugh is that MB tells white people that they cannot possibly understand what life is like as a black person, and they are right. And yet that is exactly what Munroe has done to women

Yep, totally agree. Munroe has been invited to speak to an organisation I work for and as a Black woman I really want to ask that question but we have to send questions before the event and I doubt it will get past the woke moderators from our Inclusion Team.

I'm already on their shit list as I haven't downloaded the company's new autosignature template with my preferred pronoun included. I told a member of that team that I can be referred to as she/her and it isn't my 'preference', it's my expectation since I'm a bio woman which is a simple fact. This resulted in a complaint to HR and I then had to have a meeting with my manager. He admitted that he didn't really understand the issue or why the complaint was made but he was instructed to conduct an enablement session with me and had been given a booklet on how I can be a better ally for my LGBTQ colleagues to 'help guide our conversation' .

I used the session to talk to him about the GRA, trans activism and the issues women are facing. He is a 50 something man with daughters so it was an interesting conversation for us both. We didn't even get around to opening the booklet which was a bonus:)

New posts on this thread. Refresh page