Trans Widows' Escape Committee 4 - A New Hope

[TinselAngel]

Who would have thought we'd make it to thread 4?

Let's have some mutual pats on the back for the amazing support women on these threads have given to other trans widows, and the accidental consciousness raising that has come about as a result of this community.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

We now have a website which has been very well recived, and if any women who have contributed to these threads would like to write their story for inclusion on the website that would be wonderful.

Do post to get the new thread going. Links to the website and previous threads will follow.

As ever our thoughts are with the women still stuck in these relationships- check in, we do worry about you.

I loved it when MNHQ let even this little corner of FWR in this little corner of Mumsnet to be support only. But I guess times have changed.

I am sorry @cupcakecontest. Try to post again?

thanks, SouthernTW, I will try. It has been more than 5 years since the last relationship relevant to the subject of this thread ended. I have been seeking out and reading similar stories from other women including in these threads here and seeing so many patterns very similar to what I experienced (narcissism, gaslighting, the heartbreak of losing ones partner). The part that has remained with me and seems to still affect me to this day (I have been celibate since!) is the way that the intimacy portion of the relationship has altered my relationship with my body and with sexuality altogether. I don't see many talking about the unpleasantness that can occur within the intimate part of a relationship. I am sure others have experienced it (?). There is this deep abiding shame even now 5+ years later and apparently an inability to venture back into relationships altogether because of it. It is both extremely embarrassing to talk about (I have never discussed it in person / in therapy with anyone) yet sometimes the only way to get past something is to get it out in the open. Its like

crap, sorry - literally my cat posted my comment before I was done! I was saying it is like if I could go back in time, I would not have entered into the relationship with my ex at all (we were not married and did not have children) which maybe some others also feel? But mostly I regret ever taking part in the intimate aspects which were requested and then demanded of me.

@cupcakecontest- it sounds to me as if you have some misplaced shame over what your ex required of you in the bedroom. Although I can understand why you would feel that way (especially after having read what so many TWs have experienced), it is not your fault and the shame is not yours to bear. But even knowing that in your head, it is difficult to actually feel that way. I highly recommend therapy from a therapist who specializes in trauma. This TW experience is most definitely traumatic. My therapy experience especially with EMDR has been very helpful.

Contrary to what many TWs have experienced, my stbx shut me out sexually for years and I internalized so much of it in terms of my weight and appearance. I naively believed if only I was thinner, prettier, something, he would want me. Little did I know all he wanted was to engage in sex online posing as a woman. I am having a hard time reconciling whether I can ever feel confident enough to be intimate with someone else in the future.

And yes, if I could go back in time, knowing what I know now, I would have run screaming in the other direction from stbx.

@cupcakecontest, I'm also still dealing with the effects of the relationship with my former husband on my self-image and sexuality. It is not easy to unravel this. If you don't already have a good therapist, please consider getting one.

As for how I refer to my ex... it varies based on context. I do use his female name with friends who know him. But in therapy and here, I use his male pronouns, because that's my own business, not his. Being dragged along into my ex's AGP fantasy is something I still resent and am trying to recover from.

@TinselAngel, that was an amazing article and interview. I would have posted in the comments there but Discus is too easy to track back to my real name, and I really would like to avoid getting fired from my academia job.

It’s frustrates me to know this so I know it will sound frustrating to read- I actually have had an EMDR trained therapist for the past 5 years but I haven’t brought up this specific issue with her. Partly because I’m so embarrassed that I participated in acts that I didn’t want to and which were off-putting to me but also because of this underlying feeling that it’s not “abuse” so I don’t get to have ptsd about it even if objectively the outward signs are there. I feel the most helpful thing would be to know that other women also feel the same way. That there are other women who performed these kinds of acts against their better judgement to placate someone who threatened to hurt themselves (or actually hurt themselves) if they didn’t go along with it AND pretend to not dread it. I’m mad at myself I think for “getting myself into” it. I know that if a friend were telling me the same exact story as it happened to HER I would not feel at all the same way about her as I do myself.

@cupcakecontest

It’s frustrates me to know this so I know it will sound frustrating to read- I actually have had an EMDR trained therapist for the past 5 years but I haven’t brought up this specific issue with her. Partly because I’m so embarrassed that I participated in acts that I didn’t want to and which were off-putting to me but also because of this underlying feeling that it’s not “abuse” so I don’t get to have ptsd about it even if objectively the outward signs are there. I feel the most helpful thing would be to know that other women also feel the same way. That there are other women who performed these kinds of acts against their better judgement to placate someone who threatened to hurt themselves (or actually hurt themselves) if they didn’t go along with it AND pretend to not dread it. I’m mad at myself I think for “getting myself into” it. I know that if a friend were telling me the same exact story as it happened to HER I would not feel at all the same way about her as I do myself.

Women are wary about sharing too much about that sort of things on here because we've had the occasional poster LARPing here to try and extract stories so they can get their rocks off.

If you look on the Trans Widows' Voices website though, you'll see several stories from women who feel similar to you.

“ Women are wary about sharing too much about that sort of things on here because we've had the occasional poster LARPing here to try and extract stories so they can get their rocks off.”
That’s exactly what I was worried about. I need to spend more time with the stories on the TWV site, I have only covered the first few pages. Also I was thinking just as I sent my last post that although I do not want to talk to my therapist about these issues today it’s possible I will eventually. Never say never. Little steps.

Can't recommend therapy enough cupcake. And you can keep control of the detail, but address the way you felt and feel about you going forward. Historically on these threads and on TWV there is much that will resonate I'm sure.
But sadly Tinsels right. We get people wanting to get into detail here in ways that seem at times obvious and salacious and it can feel abusive and exploitative all over again, so we tread with care.
5 years out though? Sounds like you decided to leave and not keep going back which, however lonely and difficult, sounds like you freeing yourself?
It took me years to feel less ashamed and embarrassed, that I should have guessed, and that there was something deeply flawed in me and my marriage. I realized over time that I had many womens' sympathy and compassion, and that it is a very unusual and isolating nightmare. Its corny but boy you know you're strong as you emerge the other side.

cupcakecontest The same thing happened to me. I had a difficult time recognising it as abuse too. It absolutely was. You have nothing to feel shame over. That is all his. Like others have said tell your therapist. You don't need to share details, they can still help you xx

But mostly I regret ever taking part in the intimate aspects which were requested and then demanded of me.

The same here. The thing is... it was like a frog in boiling water, you know? First it was a little thing asked from me every now and then, and then a bit more, and then it took over completely. And it didn't help that the current society helped me to basically gaslight myself into thinking that anything kinky and sexual is not to be critiqued, so I told myself I should partake and the problem was with me. There's one aspect of this that still bothers me a huge amount but I can't really write about it here.

Parts of this are relevant to this conversation:

www.womenarehuman.com/these-chains-that-have-no-name-interview-with-trans-widows-voices/

@cupcakecontest, I didn't mention it in previous post, but I too have been celibate since my divorce. This whole thing was such a mindfuck, I'm only now starting to think of maybe dating, several years post-divorce.

It has helped me to think of it this way: either my ex knew for his entire adult life that he was transgender, in which case he married me under false pretenses and is a lying asshole. Or my ex developed AGP later in life, like ten years into our marriage. In which case he's lying to himself and everyone else that this was a lifelong medical condition and he destroyed our marriage for a fetish, so he's an asshole. Either way, he's a lying asshole.

I just found that article last night and was so relieved to see the phrase “topping from the bottom” used to describe it - probably the most apt description I have ever seen.

@cupcakecontest

I just found that article last night and was so relieved to see the phrase “topping from the bottom” used to describe it - probably the most apt description I have ever seen.

It's not something that I experienced but a lot of women have described that dynamic.

Hi all, longtime lurker and TW here. It's been almost three years since I was finally able to flee the relationship that brought me to this page. My ex felt like unburdening himself of his tendencies only after we were married and I was on a 5-year spousal visa in the UK (I'm American but still live in the UK). He became narcissistic and abusive before that, though, and his gender issues only amplified that. It traumatized me immensely, the lying, double life online, misogyny, cheating (I got to find pictures!), agreeing to boundaries one day then completely ignoring them the next, the constant, obsessive physical changes, which would then create a constant sense of grief in me, the gaslighting, complete invalidation of my feelings or needs (because he didn't want to feel 'bad') and just the sheer, shocking deviance and depravity that he was capable of basically gave me a nervous breakdown that ended with me being too anxious to function and convalescing back in the States for 8 months. It was so difficult to find support from other women who had been through this at that time. Most resources seemed to want me to celebrate what felt like not only the death of a spouse but also the death of my dreams with him, suck it up and go shopping or something, it was horrific. Now, my life is settled and actually very peaceful and happy (no contact was a godsend), but I still deal with feelings of anger and just trying to process the shock of it all. I heard an interview that @TinselAngel did on SSN and so much resonated for me there that I came here. This resource is so important. If I had been able to read stories like this, see the patterns, and know what was coming down the pipeline, I think I would have been able to emotionally (at least) detach much sooner and spared myself that awful push and pull of what felt like trying to save someone from flushing his family life down the drain. It just became so surreal towards the end, like living with a stranger. Anyway, hi and thank you all for sharing your stories. It's a community I so wish I would have found sooner.

Welcome Bun. Its great to hear that you've found some peace, and you summarized your experiences so neatly. Like you I find no contact a godsend (I think I'm lucky... you dont mention children so I assume you dont have any with him? That seems to make no contact hard for many people sharing parenting where kids see their fathers). And like you the residue is anger, and sudden surprising feelings of disbelief, and the enormity of this experience. Women come here at all stages and its lovely to hear from people feeling some relief, or freedom, or starting life again. Are you completely out of contact with him and his fsmily/friends? Welcome anyway

Hi @socialworker222, the behaviour started only a couple of years into the relationship and then got very intense very quickly, and I refused to buy a house or have children with him until 'things got resolved', which they did not, so I never did either. Would have been really great if he hadn't lied to me for years about wanting to stop and making promises to do so, while not only continuing but escalating things behind my back. Having dealt with that for years and the mental health fallout means that I'm a bit behind age wise and also now very sensitive to stress, so children may not be a possibility. Also, the new name he took was the one I'd really wanted for a female child (he knew this), and I'm still hurt from that. I can't hear that name now without feeling very uncomfortable.
However, yes, it did make no contact easier as the UK wasn't his native country either and most of his friends were both connected to his 'new life' and also quite dysfunctional themselves, so cutting them off was easy. I was very sad to lose my young niece and nephew, but it was just impossible to keep contact with them and not deal with my ex, who at the time I left was pretty unhinged in a variety of ways.
Anyway, you're right about dealing with the 'enormity of the experience'. That part of my life was just very frightening and unreal, if anyone knows a TW-friendly therapist, I'd be really grateful as I'd love to decrease how much these thoughts still knock around in my head. I think there's definitely still come C-PTSD there. Any recommendations very welcome. :)

Welcome, @Bunshine. I would definitely recommend a therapist trained in trauma who actually doesn't deal with trans issues specifically. Definitely avoid any who are "affirming."

As sad as it makes me to read TW stories, they have been a Godsend to me. Knowing what could happen has made me so much more proactive in getting out of this situation. There is no way I want to still be tethered to this person and have to deal with some of the situations other TWs have encountered. Now, if only there was a way to lower the level of trauma to my kids.

New update.
2 years my AGP has been on antidepressants. He was pleasant to be around, no mood swings, no thoughts of dressing (in fact it perplexed him that he would ever do such a thing).
One month off the ADs without telling the Dr, just reducing to nothing by himself as he knows best, of course.
I think he is in a mania, he is restless and argumentative and supremely arrogant.
He wants to dress as its now a psychological need and not at all sexual, apparently. Massive argument as I don't want him to do it and said so. You would of thought that I had asked him to murder his own children.
I didn't handle things too well myself, and aggravated him to a rage.
He talks about his feminine side as if its a beloved longed for girlfriend, who I am abusing by denying her existence.
I want him to make an appointment with the doctor as he is mentally unwell, but he can't see it in his mania. This isn't a feminine essence its a sexual mania, coupled with the high of doing something taboo and pushing boundaries.

I think its important to document the long term cyclical nature so others can see what and where the harmless bit of dressing goes to. It goes to a dark and mad and lonely place

Do you think it's possible the antidepressants reduced his sex drive and in that way, ehm, had an effect on his desires to dress?

Anyway it sounds exhausting, I am sorry. "My" AGP is bipolar type 2 and the hypomanic phases were something I'd wipe from my memory if possible.

@EmilyHowardsWife, I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. Though a comment on this one sentence you wrote:

I didn't handle things too well myself, and aggravated him to a rage.

No, he chose not to exercise his anger management and control his own emotions. As I'm divorced from someone with anger management issues, I can tell you now... these people can control it if they so choose.

Choosing not to take psychiatric medications is also a choice.

I hope things get better for you soon. Please know that we're all here to support you.

The anti depressants definitely obliterated his sexual function to nothing. So yes.
He refuses to believe he is full blown bi polar, but concedes he might be a bit on the light weight scale of bi polar.
I don't want to diagnose him, but I think he could do with a good honest talk with the doctor and let them know he stopped the meds on his own.

All I know is that he is not normal and we are in for a horrible time, both of us, if he doesn't get help now. I'm trying to get him to agree to go which is easier said than done.