Trans Widows' Escape Committee 4 - A New Hope

[TinselAngel]

Who would have thought we'd make it to thread 4?

Let's have some mutual pats on the back for the amazing support women on these threads have given to other trans widows, and the accidental consciousness raising that has come about as a result of this community.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

We now have a website which has been very well recived, and if any women who have contributed to these threads would like to write their story for inclusion on the website that would be wonderful.

Do post to get the new thread going. Links to the website and previous threads will follow.

As ever our thoughts are with the women still stuck in these relationships- check in, we do worry about you.

I’m exactly the same! You never loved me then.”

Schrödinger's transitioner, simultaneously exactly the same yet completely different.

@TinselAngel

I always start getting twitchy about starting a new thread around now. Do let me know if you feel a 70 post rant coming on!

I have been wondering what new title you were dreaming up, @TinselAngel.

I guess I'm glad that the few people I've told about spouse's belief that he is tg have been horrified. I'm not very woke nor do I hang with that crowd. One of my biggest fears is that people will assume I did know about this earlier.

I have been wondering what new title you were dreaming up,

I have a 5 related title ready, never you fear!

@Bunshine

My ex was probably the most overtly masculine guy I'd ever been with, to be honest. He defo didn't act like a woman, and in fact would say misogynistic things sometimes, so no.

You know, even after all this time, even after my life has gotten so good and peaceful (which I certainly don't take for granted!) and I'm free legally and in every other way, the emotion that pops up for me, often totally uninvited, is the level of white-hot rage I have at being deceived in such a way.

Because, my ex knew about his tendencies before he married me. And then waited until I was good and stuck in the UK on a spousal visa, where the ending the marriage or even living separately might get me deported, before he decided to let me in on his little secret.

Then, he went full-bore pretty quickly, and his personality totally changed. Things he used to make fun of me for liking because they were so feminine, he suddenly liked. He was totally absent emotionally because he spent every minute he at work sat in front of the computer on message boards or watching trans Youtube docs or makeup tutorials. He dropped all his old hobbies, many of which we used to share. His sexual wants changed and he refused to be intimate unless it was the way he wanted, which, uh, I wasn't in to. In every way that mattered, I was functionally single for years before I realised it.

For me, that bombshell was no less a contract-rewriting, deal-breaking revelation than if he knew I wanted kids, and he married me before telling me he was sterile, or if he suddenly decided he was going to be a bigamist. I was completely blindsided. And to add insult to injury, it was like watching him and my dreams along with it die, be replaced by a cheating 'party girl', and be expected to celebrate it. There was only one person who got it, a woman who was dating a friend of his, who tried to give me support. But it could really only go so far because they all partied together. Of course, he tried to get me to hang out with his new friends (so that I'd have to accept it), but that ended pretty quickly because he wanted me to be 'happy' all the time when we went out, and it just made me cry. So I decided to be authentic; I went out one night with him in all black, and told a friend of his that I felt like I was in mourning and was really having a hard time with things, and that I felt like my husband had died. That messed with the story he was telling them about how his wife was supportive and totally fine with him being out every weekend (big fat liar alert!), so shockingly I was not invited back. He didn't really want me there anyway. I got in the way of his good time.

But, you know what pisses me off the most? He knew he was doing all this stuff, and what he wouldn't admit to me, but what I see very clearly in hindsight, was that he was keeping me around until he was ready to 'make the jump', feeding me a bunch of lies while he made his mind up about how far he wanted to go. He wanted to go out and have the excitement and attention etc, but then he wanted a little wifey to come home to so he, what, wouldn't have to sleep alone? Had someone to do his laundry? I was a security blanket, not a person. The trauma and complete destruction of trust those years inflicted on me - he could have cared less. That level of callousness and selfishness and COWARDICE, I didn't know someone was capable of those things. I can say that I've come out of it much more self-protective and savvy about who I give my time and attention to, but it's been a very hard life lesson!

I would apologise for these novel-length posts, but it's very difficult to talk about these things with others. It's like, with any other issue, if he'd been a gambler, or a drunk, or a porn addict, my old feminist community would be there for support. But if my ex had gender issues...it's like hearing about my experience creates so much cognitive dissonance with their narrative, they just ignore me or kind of imply I should probably keep my mouth shut. I feel betrayed by them as well. :( It's painful to remember these things, but it's so wonderful to meet people who've been through the same thing. Thank you all so much for telling your truth. xx

This is exactly it for me. When they later say they've "always been a girl" but tricked you into marriage and children with a man while hiding the truth. It's the utter deception and charade that is devastating and then you're expected to be their cheerleader. It's narcissistic abuse.

I found this thread and read it out of interest and I feel I need to say how profoundly sorry I am that you've all had SO much to endure. Any body else being emotionally abused on this scale would have a chorus of support on the other boards and yet you feel the need to hide away for fear of public disapproval. I can't believe these men felt you should just accept this, it's misoginy on a massive scale. I hope you can all find RL support, peace and some happiness

Thanks, @Daleksatemyshed! The good news, if you can call it that, is that, for me at least, those close to me who I've told have also been horrified and very supportive. In society at large though, I am afraid to go more public because I am genuinely afraid of death threats, rape threats and doxxing. There are also many tactics that remind me of the narcissistic abuse I suffered before:

Name calling (a particular slur)
Gas lighting
Minimising
Invalidation
Bullying and threats
The general idea that if my reality differs from another's, that I must be destroyed

The above and more are pretty much textbook narcissistic manipulation. To be honest, I've been traumatized enough and my emotional and physical safety are very important to me. The emotions and polarized anger regarding this issue are very extreme right now, and I really don't want to put myself in the line of fire. I can say, and I do consider myself a reasonable, caring person, this is the first time in my life I've ever felt silenced. This experience has really changed the ways I evaluate today's politics as well, for what it's worth. I think you'd find a similar sentiment among other TWs, especially those who came into this experience quite left leaning.

In the end, what I find absolutely astounding is that a group or society can look at an abused wife and her abusive husband, and celebrate him while compounding her abuse by threatening her into silence. Makes me want to go live in the woods.

@Bunshine, they say all things will pass, maybe one day this sad situation will pass too. There's so much in social media and the papers about Transgender issues but the Trans Widows thread was the first time I'd really seen wives talk about how things were from their side, not the "Take a Break" crappy stories about My DH became a woman and We've never been happier". Without getting in trouble with MNHQ I find it hard to put into words how wrong your posts feel to me, even when they say they're women the rest of the female sex is still being held accountable for them.We're always in the wrong it seems

Sorry, should say always, indignant typing!

I would lose my job if I talked publicly about what my ex has said and done.

I do have friends who are very supportive, but they don't say anything publicly, either. Because talking about how transgenderism is anything but wonderful and "brave and stunning" could cost them their jobs, too.

@TinselAngel eager to see what awesome new title you’ve come up with.

I’ve probably said it before here but as much as I hate that any woman has had to go through this, I am so grateful to have found this thread. Just knowing that I’m not losing my mind and this is not an isolated incident has helped my strength immensely. For just about every piece of my story there has been someone else with a piece just like it.

@KickingBishopBrennanUpTheArrse You summed it up well. The utter deception. Even now he comes up with little things from his early teens that he makes out to be reasons he ‘just knew’.

@QuinnMovesOn I have a couple of friends that are fully supportive and a few more that are supportive only of the ways in which he is neglectful of our child and some of the terrible things he has said to me. They know of the rest but from the reaction I know that they can’t understand why it’s an issue for me nor why it impacts my child.

Any other women that come to these threads please learn what your limits are, how to set boundaries and how to keep them.

I was never really taught what boundaries were and felt it was ‘mean’ and not the done thing for a ‘nice girl’ to tell a male partner no or to speak up when things happened in private that I did not like. The social norm also seemed to be that once a certain stage was reached in a relationship a “good girl” remained in that relationship for a long time and only “bad girls” reached that stage and did not remain committed. All of that is not isolated to the current situation I am in and certainly shaped other relationships I stayed in since I was young where I now see I should have got out.

This specific situation though escalated over time and each time something uncomfortable happened I felt I had to be ‘nice’. There is no reward at the end of all that being nice and making yourself smaller and smaller. I’m grateful for this thread but also know I can only be so open about what is happening.

There is no reward at the end of all that being nice and making yourself smaller and smaller.

This is very true.

@Bunshine my experience as well when you mentioned how it has changed your evaluation of politics as well. To see abuse so celebrated at the same time as all these calls to end abuses make it all ring so hollow.

SeasideM yes you're right, boundaries are so important.

Going grey rock, giving away nothing that can be used against you (eg I told him the phrase gaslighting & he used it to describe me to lawyers) and absolutely refusing for you or the children to be their narcissistic supply. I found that my lawyer & barrister, CAFCASS social workers and family court judges saw through it all instantly and he was told that this was not his opportunity to air his "issues" but that it was ONLY about the child who had suffered a "bereavement".

The similarities and repetitive nature of these behaviours never ceases to amaze me, and strikes everyone joining these threads.
Bishop I too am in a good place, free, glad I'm rid of him, but sometimes get waves of anger about 1) money, 2) treatment of my children and 3) as you say, the deceit. My ex was middle-class, buffered by private money, and worked in about the most sympathetic 'woke' profession possible, to make his move. He too waited, knowing his secret, using me and leading me into family life, until trans stuff became very mainstream around 2015, Bruce Jenner, that boxer. He had no fear of discrimination or violence as popularly believed, and no fear of major repercussions for him. Coming out as 'trans' was not at all 'brave' despite the protestations of his colleagues and some friends; when I asked if he feared anything making this move, the single thing he feared was 'being laughed at'. Not mortal violence or discrimination, rejection, loss of his family (which he got), but derision. The vanity and delusion of this . So I don't buy the victimhood at all. Coming out as trans now, you are handled with kid gloves by all around. We don't live in homophobic parts of the world, and he carried enormous male and class privilege before doing this.
I talked to a divorcing friend yesterday and noted that you can either fight this, try to get someone to behave ethically and decently, try to get them to communicate, respect other's boundaries, and treat children well, but they repeatedly don't. So you either don't get what you want, and spend time/energy on trying, or you don't get what you want and stop investing time and energy. The latter works much better for me. I never got an apology, or recognition of the impact of this, or fair treatment, but I now don't waste more of my life and time on him where possible.
So so many people are secretly sceptical; over two thirds of my colleagues are dubious about trans identity, concerned about women's rights, and question gender ideology. But absolutely none of us say a word. Doesn't mean we buy the nonsense.

Just dropping in to give you all my continued support

We told the kids about the divorce. They still don't know about the tg issue. My daughter asked him, "I don't understand how this went from you losing weight to getting a divorce?" I wanted to say, "You and me both, sugar."

Anyhow, I am resolute that I am not going to let him repaint himself as a victim of his so-called gender identity. What about all the lies, deception, and online cheating? Not to mention the money he spent on his online escapades. I could have had a housekeeper with that money! He has not kept his side of the street clean. My son is pretty much done with him and even my daughter is perfectly happy only seeing him a few hours a week. Part of me would love to ask him if it's worth it.

Thank you fellow transwidows for sharing your stories. You have given me boldness in getting out of this situation.

SouthernTW,

@SouthernTW It's such a difficult time. Things will be so much better soon, though, with this out of your life.

I would, however, caution about managing your expectations regarding him taking much responsibility for the damage he's done.

I worked for years to get my ex to go to therapy for the compulsion, obsession, and finally cheating. He went to a well known organization in the UK that 'specializes' in these issues. I was incredibly naive to think he would get the help he needed. He and the counselor didn't cover any of it. Just how to move forward in his 'journey'. Disappointing isn't the word. Also probably malpractice.

I tell this story as an example of the fact that he will probably choose to fall headfirst into the current narrative of 'how amazing are you, darling' instead of confronting the damage he's caused. The issue is very one sided in public discourse and I've not seen one example of accountability for all the points you've mentioned.

It's difficult to get the fact that there is usually, for 'late-stage male transitioners', a suffering family on the other side of this behaviour acknowledged. Forget the added revelations of infidelity, huge expenditures, lying, cheating and betrayal (common almost the point of seeming de rigeur). They aren't a good look (ha!), so will most likely be swept under the rug by himself and his 'supporters'. Further, if he's got narcissistic tendencies, he'll only want to present his 'ideal' self, and will probably try his damndest to throw any memories of bad behaviour down the memory hole.

However, I've found that removing mention of gender identity entirely helps keep me centered and is how I choose to communicate with others regarding the experience. He came into our relationship with a lot of secrets, he had a lot of clandestine relationships, he was emotionally absent, he cheated, he treated me very poorly. In your case, he was spending loads of money in secret. That's a clearer picture of his behaviour. Because, regardless of the reason, he acted like a terrible person.

I hope this helps. The gender stuff was used as an excuse for my ex's sh%t behaviour so many times, it took me awhile to break through the cognitive dissonance to see things clearly. Like, he can act like a victim all he wants, I know what really happened and I am confident in my appraisal of the situation. Getting to that point is hard won, but provides so much peace of mind.

[quote Bunshine]@SouthernTW It's such a difficult time. Things will be so much better soon, though, with this out of your life.

I would, however, caution about managing your expectations regarding him taking much responsibility for the damage he's done.

I worked for years to get my ex to go to therapy for the compulsion, obsession, and finally cheating. He went to a well known organization in the UK that 'specializes' in these issues. I was incredibly naive to think he would get the help he needed. He and the counselor didn't cover any of it. Just how to move forward in his 'journey'. Disappointing isn't the word. Also probably malpractice.

I tell this story as an example of the fact that he will probably choose to fall headfirst into the current narrative of 'how amazing are you, darling' instead of confronting the damage he's caused. The issue is very one sided in public discourse and I've not seen one example of accountability for all the points you've mentioned.

It's difficult to get the fact that there is usually, for 'late-stage male transitioners', a suffering family on the other side of this behaviour acknowledged. Forget the added revelations of infidelity, huge expenditures, lying, cheating and betrayal (common almost the point of seeming de rigeur). They aren't a good look (ha!), so will most likely be swept under the rug by himself and his 'supporters'. Further, if he's got narcissistic tendencies, he'll only want to present his 'ideal' self, and will probably try his damndest to throw any memories of bad behaviour down the memory hole.

However, I've found that removing mention of gender identity entirely helps keep me centered and is how I choose to communicate with others regarding the experience. He came into our relationship with a lot of secrets, he had a lot of clandestine relationships, he was emotionally absent, he cheated, he treated me very poorly. In your case, he was spending loads of money in secret. That's a clearer picture of his behaviour. Because, regardless of the reason, he acted like a terrible person.

I hope this helps. The gender stuff was used as an excuse for my ex's sh%t behaviour so many times, it took me awhile to break through the cognitive dissonance to see things clearly. Like, he can act like a victim all he wants, I know what really happened and I am confident in my appraisal of the situation. Getting to that point is hard won, but provides so much peace of mind. [/quote]
Absolutely - focusing on what they did wrong without mentioning their "stunning and brave journey" highlights that they are just yet another middle aged husband and father who lied, cheated, abused and then blamed his family.

This is the point at which "not my circus, not my monkeys" needs to become your mantra.

Shall I start a new thread today or leave it for a bit ?

Hello Ladies,
Seen this and thought of you all ....

It's lovely and refreshing to see an alternative, but underreported, perspective being given such support.....

@Justtryingtobehelpful Yes, I thought the interviews there were very impressive.

@TinselAngel I had someone on a group I'm on who was wondering where she could get support with what she's going through. I recommended these threads.

I've not had chance to watch that interview yet but I'm told it's good.