Trans Widows' Escape Committee 4 - A New Hope

[TinselAngel]

Who would have thought we'd make it to thread 4?

Let's have some mutual pats on the back for the amazing support women on these threads have given to other trans widows, and the accidental consciousness raising that has come about as a result of this community.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

We now have a website which has been very well recived, and if any women who have contributed to these threads would like to write their story for inclusion on the website that would be wonderful.

Do post to get the new thread going. Links to the website and previous threads will follow.

As ever our thoughts are with the women still stuck in these relationships- check in, we do worry about you.

QuinnMovesOn
Thank you, it is something I should remember.

He did admit it was a temper tantrum, but he is allowed that as I was so cruel with my words. He is upset that he can't do something he loves and can't see no reason why he can't do it or why I'm being "a bitch about it".

@EmilyHowardsWife

QuinnMovesOn Thank you, it is something I should remember. He did admit it was a temper tantrum, but he is allowed that as I was so cruel with my words. He is upset that he can't do something he loves and can't see no reason why he can't do it or why I'm being "a bitch about it".

I think this is key. Where is the incentive for him to get help to stop doing something that he enjoys?

One might say- to save your sanity and your marriage, but they just don't care about that when they're in this particular frame of mind.

Welcome back, and I'm so sorry you're still in the cycle 3 1/2 years on from the first thread

Also reinforcing that you losing your temper about being expected to tolerate the intolerable does not mean that you are the bad guy.

@EmilyHowardsWife

I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this. It really can induce feelings of dread. It's expected that being on antidepressants altered his sex drive, but also interesting that he became so far removed from it that he was puzzled he even did it in the first place. The adx could have been balancing his dopamine as well...

Sadly, my ex had a boatload of emotional issues on top of the gender stuff as well. Rage, feeling entitled to abuse when upset (though you couldn't so much as show frustration with him or you were the devil), low frustration tolerance, poor impulse control, thrill seeking, total addiction to adrenaline and antisocial/narcissistic boundary pushing behaviour. When all this finally dovetailed with the gender issues...look out.

Of all of the women I've met who have described really poorly behaved exes with AGP, this pattern fits with their experience as well.

I suppose the question is how much are you willing to tolerate before it becomes necessary to protect your own mental health first.

@Tinselangel
Thank you your advice is always helpful to me.
Your right he doesn't care about our marriage and he threatened to leave.
I have had 2 years of calm, but it does always come back. He was particularly cruel this time around but has justified that because i am psychologically harming him. He thinks it is my fault he was so mentally sick in the first place. I know its part of his illness and he needs treatment. He is acting a bit more calmly today. FYI the mental health nurse told me if it wasn't for me he would have been sectioned and possibly worse.
When he is on an even keel he is fine, but the mania is as equally hard as the depression.

@Bunshine
OMG your post is scarily too accurate to read. This could be my partners profile completely.
I wish he could get some introspection and see the compulsion doesn't come out of thin air, he knows he is not well but seems incapable of asking for proper help.
When he is high in a mania, the last thing he wants is for the feeling to go, he thinks he is invincible and everyone else is the problem. So of course he doesn't want a doctor or anyone to stop that.

@EmilyHowardsWife

The constant 'back to square one' stuff is maddening, and from my experience is a symptom of the behaviour.

If it helps, I has a lot of time to think about what I wanted in life when dealing with his behaviour compromised my mental health to such an extent that I had to go live with my parents in the States for eight months because I was a sleepless, nervous wreck having constant panic attacks and agoraphobia.

I read a lot of literature on healing from abuse, dating people who weren't good for you etc. And I came up with the following:

1. The pillars of what I wanted in a relationship (of any kind). I had been reacting to his behaviour so much, I'd lost sight of what I wanted. My big tenets are: honesty, kindness, empathy, stability (the dishonesty, cruelty, coldness and instability were driving me nuts because they were at their core an affront to my values).
2. I made a promise to myself that my relationships would reflect these values, even if it meant it was me, my cat and Netflix.
3. I looked at my relationship with my ex to see if he was currently or was going to be able to embody these values (three guesses what that answer was!).
4. I decided that, given his behaviour (gender and otherwise), he was unable to contribute to a supportive, stable family life.
5. I stopped listening to what he was saying and started looking at what he was doing. And what his behaviour said was: I have a compulsion at odds with what you want in your life that is more important to me than anything else, even my own future with you. Not only that, but part of that compulsion involves putting your health at risk by cheating, getting sexual thrills on message boards, and generally leading a double life and I LIKE IT THAT WAY BECAUSE IT'S EXCITING.
6. I realized it was kind of narcissistic of me to think I was going to 'save' him from something he had no intention of stopping, and if wanted to ruin his life, that was his business.
7. That his behaviour was very similar to a drug addiction, and that it was going to run its course whether I was there or not.
8. That if I didn't detach and protect myself, his chaos was going to drag me down with him.

I'm sure you've given this loads of thought. But since your partner seems so close to my ex temperament wise, I hope this helps. I hope you find some peace and clarity. xx

#Bunshine
Thank you this is something I need to seriously think about.

Brilliant advice for all of us still in relationships

[quote Bunshine]**@EmilyHowardsWife

The constant 'back to square one' stuff is maddening, and from my experience is a symptom of the behaviour.

If it helps, I has a lot of time to think about what I wanted in life when dealing with his behaviour compromised my mental health to such an extent that I had to go live with my parents in the States for eight months because I was a sleepless, nervous wreck having constant panic attacks and agoraphobia.

I read a lot of literature on healing from abuse, dating people who weren't good for you etc. And I came up with the following:

1. The pillars of what I wanted in a relationship (of any kind). I had been reacting to his behaviour so much, I'd lost sight of what I wanted. My big tenets are: honesty, kindness, empathy, stability (the dishonesty, cruelty, coldness and instability were driving me nuts because they were at their core an affront to my values).
2. I made a promise to myself that my relationships would reflect these values, even if it meant it was me, my cat and Netflix.
3. I looked at my relationship with my ex to see if he was currently or was going to be able to embody these values (three guesses what that answer was!).
4. I decided that, given his behaviour (gender and otherwise), he was unable to contribute to a supportive, stable family life.
5. I stopped listening to what he was saying and started looking at what he was doing. And what his behaviour said was: I have a compulsion at odds with what you want in your life that is more important to me than anything else, even my own future with you. Not only that, but part of that compulsion involves putting your health at risk by cheating, getting sexual thrills on message boards, and generally leading a double life and I LIKE IT THAT WAY BECAUSE IT'S EXCITING.
6. I realized it was kind of narcissistic of me to think I was going to 'save' him from something he had no intention of stopping, and if wanted to ruin his life, that was his business.
7. That his behaviour was very similar to a drug addiction, and that it was going to run its course whether I was there or not.
8. That if I didn't detach and protect myself, his chaos was going to drag me down with him.

I'm sure you've given this loads of thought. But since your partner seems so close to my ex temperament wise, I hope this helps. I hope you find some peace and clarity. xx[/quote]
Superb!
4, 5, 6, and 7 are exactly where I am. If we didn't have children in common, I would go full no-contact. I have to keep repeating to myself, "I can't save him." I have also been working through even if there wasn't the alleged trans issue that he has been a horrible husband and father who has lied from the get-go, his nearly every action has been steeped in deception, and he has engaged in online sexual affairs. There is not much there to save.

It's fascinating to me, @EmilyHowardsWife how your spouse was able to keep regulated with meds. And his choosing to go off them is him showing you exactly what he's willing to do for you and your relationship.

My daughter asked last night if Daddy has an eating disorder. He's lost 200 pounds in less than a year. I just went with my now-constant refrain, "Daddy makes a lot of choices I don't think are healthy."

@SouthernTW

My daughter asked last night if Daddy has an eating disorder. He's lost 200 pounds in less than a year. I just went with my now-constant refrain, "Daddy makes a lot of choices I don't think are healthy."

It's so unfair that they all seem to get thinner and we get fatter. I often say if my weight represented the amount of stress I had I'd look like Kate Moss. Alas it is not the case.

@EmilyHowardsWife

#Bunshine Thank you this is something I need to seriously think about. Brilliant advice for all of us still in relationships

You deserve so much more than living the rest of your life this way

There is a resource thread which may be of use /interest:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

and solidarity.

@R0wantrees

There is a resource thread which may be of use /interest: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

and solidarity.

Thanks R0.

[quote Bunshine]@EmilyHowardsWife

The constant 'back to square one' stuff is maddening, and from my experience is a symptom of the behaviour.

If it helps, I has a lot of time to think about what I wanted in life when dealing with his behaviour compromised my mental health to such an extent that I had to go live with my parents in the States for eight months because I was a sleepless, nervous wreck having constant panic attacks and agoraphobia.

I read a lot of literature on healing from abuse, dating people who weren't good for you etc. And I came up with the following:

1. The pillars of what I wanted in a relationship (of any kind). I had been reacting to his behaviour so much, I'd lost sight of what I wanted. My big tenets are: honesty, kindness, empathy, stability (the dishonesty, cruelty, coldness and instability were driving me nuts because they were at their core an affront to my values).
2. I made a promise to myself that my relationships would reflect these values, even if it meant it was me, my cat and Netflix.
3. I looked at my relationship with my ex to see if he was currently or was going to be able to embody these values (three guesses what that answer was!).
4. I decided that, given his behaviour (gender and otherwise), he was unable to contribute to a supportive, stable family life.
5. I stopped listening to what he was saying and started looking at what he was doing. And what his behaviour said was: I have a compulsion at odds with what you want in your life that is more important to me than anything else, even my own future with you. Not only that, but part of that compulsion involves putting your health at risk by cheating, getting sexual thrills on message boards, and generally leading a double life and I LIKE IT THAT WAY BECAUSE IT'S EXCITING.
6. I realized it was kind of narcissistic of me to think I was going to 'save' him from something he had no intention of stopping, and if wanted to ruin his life, that was his business.
7. That his behaviour was very similar to a drug addiction, and that it was going to run its course whether I was there or not.
8. That if I didn't detach and protect myself, his chaos was going to drag me down with him.

I'm sure you've given this loads of thought. But since your partner seems so close to my ex temperament wise, I hope this helps. I hope you find some peace and clarity. xx[/quote]
This is excellent advice.

@Bunshine, that is an awesome post. Especially #5, stop listening to what he's saying and look at what he's doing. My ex was saying a lot of delusional bullshit (some of which I think he believed) before we parted ways, but actions? Those were all very clear.

@QuinnMovesOn

Thanks, Quinn. And all. It was such a chore sorting fact from fiction toward the end. Essentially, my ex would tell me enough to keep me hooked in (he was just experimenting, he wanted to stop, nothing shady was going on online or during the all nighters he was pulling in the clubs or at house parties every weekend), but he was escalating his behaviour and cheating behind my back. For years. Eventually, he had changed so drastically I didn't even recognize him and was perfectly content to keep me in the dark wasting my life waiting for him to change/stop when he had no intention whatsoever of doing so. The lies just had just become absurd, and I can say I'm probably now correct, in hindsight, that maybe 5% of what came out of his mouth had any basis in reality.

He had started his 'new life' in earnest years before I left, and I was the last to know. I, and anyone else going through this, deserve better. xx

I know it must be very difficult for you to have to share those harsh realities, but please know how helpful it is to transwidows like me. Hearing these things strengthens my resolve to put more and more distance and not be lured in to giving him the benefit of the doubt.

" Eventually, he had changed so drastically I didn't even recognize him and was perfectly content to keep me in the dark wasting my life waiting for him to change/stop when he had no intention whatsoever of doing so."

This. Right there. That's where I am and I'm not going to waste any more time. Who knows who he really is or even was? The level of deceit is so great at this point.

@SouthernTW yes the deceit is so much of this situation. All through the escalating phases he’d shift the story so many times of how far he intended to go and how long he’d been at it. He’d say with a straight face to me that he had no idea until just before his announcement of “full time” that it was going to escalate to that point. Then the next day have no issues talking on the phone to others going on about having a name picked out for over 20 years. Yet I am supposed to just sit and be grateful (outside of few places such as this thread) to be deceived for so many years with zero indication there was such a major sexuality incompatibility. So many fundamental things about the person I was presented with were lies but I’m supposed to have a celebration.

@Bunshine that is very true to look at the actions over the words. I do wish that I had realized that so much sooner.

This was the level of gaslighting for me: "I was open about being transgender with my wife before we were married." That outright lie, told to all of our friends and my family, still makes me burn.

@QuinnMovesOn

This was the level of gaslighting for me: "I was open about being transgender with my wife before we were married." That outright lie, told to all of our friends and my family, still makes me burn.

My spouse's version was "You must have known all along. If you really loved me and knew me, you knew I was a woman. If you didn't know it just means you never really cared about me."

"You don't really love me because you don't love the real me"
Oh I'm sorry for loving the version of you that you were previously presenting, that I fell in love with , got married to and had a child with.

My ex was probably the most overtly masculine guy I'd ever been with, to be honest. He defo didn't act like a woman, and in fact would say misogynistic things sometimes, so no.

You know, even after all this time, even after my life has gotten so good and peaceful (which I certainly don't take for granted!) and I'm free legally and in every other way, the emotion that pops up for me, often totally uninvited, is the level of white-hot rage I have at being deceived in such a way.

Because, my ex knew about his tendencies before he married me. And then waited until I was good and stuck in the UK on a spousal visa, where the ending the marriage or even living separately might get me deported, before he decided to let me in on his little secret.

Then, he went full-bore pretty quickly, and his personality totally changed. Things he used to make fun of me for liking because they were so feminine, he suddenly liked. He was totally absent emotionally because he spent every minute he at work sat in front of the computer on message boards or watching trans Youtube docs or makeup tutorials. He dropped all his old hobbies, many of which we used to share. His sexual wants changed and he refused to be intimate unless it was the way he wanted, which, uh, I wasn't in to. In every way that mattered, I was functionally single for years before I realised it.

For me, that bombshell was no less a contract-rewriting, deal-breaking revelation than if he knew I wanted kids, and he married me before telling me he was sterile, or if he suddenly decided he was going to be a bigamist. I was completely blindsided. And to add insult to injury, it was like watching him and my dreams along with it die, be replaced by a cheating 'party girl', and be expected to celebrate it. There was only one person who got it, a woman who was dating a friend of his, who tried to give me support. But it could really only go so far because they all partied together. Of course, he tried to get me to hang out with his new friends (so that I'd have to accept it), but that ended pretty quickly because he wanted me to be 'happy' all the time when we went out, and it just made me cry. So I decided to be authentic; I went out one night with him in all black, and told a friend of his that I felt like I was in mourning and was really having a hard time with things, and that I felt like my husband had died. That messed with the story he was telling them about how his wife was supportive and totally fine with him being out every weekend (big fat liar alert!), so shockingly I was not invited back. He didn't really want me there anyway. I got in the way of his good time.

But, you know what pisses me off the most? He knew he was doing all this stuff, and what he wouldn't admit to me, but what I see very clearly in hindsight, was that he was keeping me around until he was ready to 'make the jump', feeding me a bunch of lies while he made his mind up about how far he wanted to go. He wanted to go out and have the excitement and attention etc, but then he wanted a little wifey to come home to so he, what, wouldn't have to sleep alone? Had someone to do his laundry? I was a security blanket, not a person. The trauma and complete destruction of trust those years inflicted on me - he could have cared less. That level of callousness and selfishness and COWARDICE, I didn't know someone was capable of those things. I can say that I've come out of it much more self-protective and savvy about who I give my time and attention to, but it's been a very hard life lesson!

I would apologise for these novel-length posts, but it's very difficult to talk about these things with others. It's like, with any other issue, if he'd been a gambler, or a drunk, or a porn addict, my old feminist community would be there for support. But if my ex had gender issues...it's like hearing about my experience creates so much cognitive dissonance with their narrative, they just ignore me or kind of imply I should probably keep my mouth shut. I feel betrayed by them as well. :( It's painful to remember these things, but it's so wonderful to meet people who've been through the same thing. Thank you all so much for telling your truth. xx

Bunshine

It really is difficult (to say the least) @Bunshine that groups/friends where this one factor of our experience totally changes if they would be supportive.

@TinselAngel / @Zeev same here. Years of zero idea or hint. Fabricated interests and hobbies. Pretend work ethic. Presented with a totally different person for at least 3 years before any of the mask fell. And even then it was such a slow progression. Then “I don’t understand how this matters, I’m exactly the same! You never loved me then.”

I always start getting twitchy about starting a new thread around now. Do let me know if you feel a 70 post rant coming on!