"My 15 yr old trans son is going through menopause - and I'm so proud of him"

[bettybeans]

http://www.essentialkids.com.au/health/health-wellbeing/my-15yearold-transgender-son-is-going-through-menopause--and-im-so-proud-of-him-20200416-h1nfe0

Christ almighty. I have been trying very hard not to go in heavy on parents of trans kids who make decisions that I simply don't understand but this whole situation just brought out absolute fury. The way she speaks about this process just enrages and saddens me in a way I can't adequately articulate. It's quite simply terrifying. I feel like I'm reading about a baptism or something.

This kid didn't stand a chance and it's absolutely heartbreaking.

Urgh

I thought the important thing with any medical procefure/intervention was realistic expectations of what it will achieve. There seems to be far to much dependence on this to be some kind of cure all. With mental.health there isnt so much a cure as there is just learning how to deal with things, gaining the tools to cope and working on it long term . Theres no popping a pill or a hormone and everything is all good.
What happens when they discover all the problems it was meant to solve still exist.

@ThisIsMyStory1 "but the doctor will have considered all of those occurrences won't they?" No, this is the problem. I personally know many doctors who have worked at the Tavistock and the main reason why 35 doctors have left the Tavistock in the last 3 years is that they are unhappy with the lack of due consideration given to these considerations. Thankfully, finally, this situation is now under review. Also, if you look at detransitioners accounts on Twitter or on detrans/reddit you will see again and again that these young women (mostly) are absolutely enraged at their doctor's lack of consideration. Have you read Keira Bell's acount? Have you follow Satan Herself on Twitter? Just yesterday she said, "It would have helped me had someone, preferably a professional, told me that my dysphoria was an expression of a complex variety of issues, similar to how my anorexia was only about weight on the surface and really about so much more." Lastly, have you followed the Dr Helen Webberley case?

This is state sponsored self harm story. Almost all of these girls are actually dealing with feelings around trauma, sexuality or autism. They will not feel the same when they are 40. If left alone they could have grown into being a woman. Now they will never have that chance - fertility, sex life, bodily integrity all destroyed.

My sister would have done this had she been captured. But this didn’t exist in the 80s. Which is how she got to grow into the happy middle aged woman she is now.

Deliberately inflicting menopause on a teenager is abuse. I hope their child has a shit hot lawyer in 10 years time, it won't take long for the results of this to become obvious.

oliver yes! My self harm scars from 30 years ago are a pain, and purely cosmetic, but I'm in good health for a middle aged woman. That child won't be healthy when they're my age.

I'm wondering about the "towering over me" thing. Does Lupron give you a growth spurt or something? I can get that happening with T, but with hormone blockers?

Going to get absolutely slaughtered on here for saying this, but these kids need help. It's a mental health issue. You dont choose your gender and anyone who says "I feel like a girl" and then become a girl, it's political correctness when the parents dont challenge it.

I hope this child finds the help they need.

... But if the child didn't get given this option and went on to self harm because they were disassociated with the body they were in wouldn't that be more awful?...

You are (rightly) concerned about self-harm but do you not have concerns about removing perfectly healthy breasts? And other harms both physically and mentally that these procedures can bring about?

All I see is a parent listening to their child and understanding that some people feel they were born in the wrong body and want to live their life as man/woman. I can't understand the fury about this, am I missing something major?

Yes, you are missing that people can’t be born in the wrong body, nor can they change sex.

The mother talks about "empowerment" and says Because what the world needs is more people who are truly comfortable being themselves – and who accept and celebrate others for doing the same.

Yet what she's done to her child is the precise opposite. She couldn't accept her child's ambivalent feelings about adolescence and life, couldn't accept them not conforming to gender stereotypes. Committing a child with a healthy body to a lifetime of medical treatment is hardly empowering.

Does she just think those words are just useful for her brand? Adolescence is difficult. Genuine acceptance of another, however they are, is really difficult. People meditate for years to try and achieve it!

Going to get absolutely slaughtered on here for saying this..

Really? Which website do you think you are on?

I am wondering how many will last till they are 40.

Pumping your body with hormones isn’t exactly a safe way to live.

Your body going through menopause is bad enough as an older woman. As a 15 year old with potentially another 60 years being post menopausal doesn’t sound like a healthy life.

Your body going through menopause is bad enough as an older woman. As a 15 year old with potentially another 60 years being post menopausal doesn’t sound like a healthy life

Isnt there also currently a shortage of HRT or has that been resolved now?

This is depressing beyond belief. I can't understand why it's legal to give children harmful drugs. That poor child.

she's talking about a 'temporary' pause on puberty, but that's not what a menopause is. Menopause is the end of menstruation and female fertility. Not a pause. Not a temporary anything.

Going to get absolutely slaughtered on here for saying this..

you're saying the same as everyone else!

Going to get absolutely slaughtered on here for saying this, but these kids need help

You won’t be slaughtered. Everyone here is completely and utterly fully for helping these children and most don’t believe that involves puberty blockers and hormone therapy that will lead to a lifetime of significant health problems, infertility and impaired sexual function.

It’s a misconception among those who spy on these threads that this forum doesn’t care about these kids. Nothing could be further from the truth of course. We care about their difficulties at the current time and the fact people are enabling treatments that will alter their bodies for life.

Sex life?

Will never be a man.

Other than close friends and/or family, will never be accepted as a man, yet will spend a lifetime trying.

Adults are allowing this to happen.

There is an awful lot of misplaced faith in the doctors who are facilitating this.

Synthetic hormones will have unforeseen consequences not yet realised.

High levels of exogenous testosterone in a female body is an overdose.

Await the pending lawsuits for medical negligence.

But if the child didn't get given this option and went on to self harm because they were disassociated with the body they were in wouldn't that be more awful? Trans teens and children who have parents who tell them to wait till they're older often experience extreme depression

This child will always have a female body because no medical treatment can change a person's sex. Cosmetic changes are possible through hormone use and surgery, but no doctor can create male or female organs. What if this child is being sold a lie?

some people feel they were born in the wrong body and want to live their life as man/woman.

But take away social stereotypes and what does that mean? You are left with a few physical differences (ability to give birth, height) that can be taken away, but not created.

This is just straight up experimenting on children isn't it, there isn't any way of sugar coating that?

They are essentially saying 'we don't actually know if putting this perfectly physically healthy child on a lifelong medical pathway where they will be on medication for life, giving them irreversible drugs and hormones that we are not actually sure about, putting them into menopause at 15 and all the crap that entails, cutting of their healthy breast tissue and possibly in the future trying to fashion some kind of manually operated penis, rendering them permanently infertile and potentially removing the chance of a healthy sex life, will actually solve any of their mental health problems in the long term. But hey, let's give it a whirl anyway. '

It's completely fucked up and illogical.

If that child was presenting with mental health problems and was' ambivalent about living' and it was nothing to do with being trans then what would the treatment be? And why can't that treatment be used for children who are presenting with gender identity issues as well, rather than irreversible drugs and lopping off healthy body parts?

This article Is Australian. In the UK mental health care for this group is CAHMS. They are very stretched and it seems they will move kids off the waiting list given any opportunity. Referring a kid to gender identity clinics would remove that child from the main waiting list.

There's no scientific proof it causes a drop in IQ as one pp said. The boy will have a sex life if he wants one, so I don't know why that's a concern for you all.

All I see is a parent listening to their child and understanding that some people feel they were born in the wrong body and want to live their life as man/woman. I can't understand the fury about this, am I missing something major?

Yes a great deal. Particularly the responsibility of parents, HCPs & the State for Safeguarding children.

BMJ article:
"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles

BMJ EBM Spotlight paper Professor Carl Heneghan (lead Oxford Evidence Based Medicine)
'Gender-affirming hormone in children and adolescents – Evidence review'
Posted on 25th February 2019

(extract)
"Gender dysphoria occurs when a person experiences discomfort or distress because of a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity. Gender dysphoria can arise in childhood and adolescent which raises many questions about how best to handle the condition. This post sets out the current evidence for gender-affirming hormones in adolescents and children to aid decision making. (continues)

"Conclusions

There are significant problems with how the evidence for Gender-affirming cross-sex hormone has been collected and analysed that prevents definitive conclusions to be drawn. Similar to puberty blockers, the evidence is limited by small sample sizes; retrospective methods, loss of considerable numbers of patients in follow-up. The majority of studies also lack a control group (only two studies used controls). Interventions have heterogeneous treatment regimes complicating comparisons between studies. Also adherence to the interventions are either not reported or at best inconsistent. Subjective outcomes, which are highly prevalent in the studies, are also prone to bias due to lack of blinding, and many effects can be explained by regression to the mean.

The development of these interventions should, therefore, occur in the context of research. Treatments for under 18 gender dysphoric children and adolescents remain largely experimental. There are a large number of unanswered questions that include the age at start, reversibility; adverse events, long term effects on mental health, quality of life, bone mineral density, osteoporosis in later life and cognition. We wonder whether off label use is appropriate and justified for drugs such as spironolactone which can cause substantial harms, including death. We are also ignorant of the long-term safety profiles of the different GAH regimens. The current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice."
blogs.bmj.com/bmjebmspotlight/2019/02/25/gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-evidence-review/

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3518188-BMJ-Prof-Carl-Heneghan-Evidence-Based-Medicine-Oxford-Panorama-Trans-Kids-Gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-Evidence-review-concludes-There-are-significant-problems

We need proper objective ethically approved academic research into what's changed in the last few years to make so many young girls feel that a life on medication and going through major surgery to change their bodies is preferable to going through female puberty and becoming a woman.

Off the top of my head, the factors I'd surmise are involved are:

1. Social media
2. Internet porn
3. Rise of queery theory and identity politics
4. HCPs willing to administer drugs and perform surgery on this group - in the US it seems to be seen as a business opportunity
5. Confusion and lack of critical thinking enabling people to grasp that this is not an extension of gay rights, it's a separate issue

I know a few women who are menopausal in their 20s and 30s because of breast cancer treatment. It's really shitty and has loads of side effects which can sometimes be just as difficult to deal with as the chemo itself.

A 15 year old cannot fucking comprehend an entire lifetime ahead of them in artificial menopause. They don't get it, they can't.