(In absence of the video clip, this is the transcript)
Welsh Affairs Committee
Oral evidence: Prison provision in Wales, HC 742
Tuesday 17 April 2018
-Chair is David T.C. Davies)
-Andrea Albutt, Prison Governors Association (PGA)
Q170 Chair: An interesting piece of evidence that has been submitted by a group called A Woman’s Place to the Justice Committee for their inquiry, which I think may be coming our way, is on the issue of if the Government bring in self-identification of gender, what the impact would be on people with a male body who are trans women, demanding a right to be in a women’s prison and the impact that could have on the perception of safety for some women. Is that something that you have dealt with?
Andrea Albutt: Yes. You also have to manage transgender really carefully, because obviously you have to think of both people, but how far—I am trying to say this appropriately. I have seen women very scared in the situation of somebody who has a male body but identifies as a woman coming into a female prison or potentially coming into a female prison. I have also seen women very scared when people are part through changing their body. It is really difficult.
Q171 Chair: Is there also an impact on what I presume will be mainly female prison officers who would be expected to carry out intimate searches of people who perhaps have a male body?
Andrea Albutt: I have to say that generally in women’s prisons we do not normally have people who are still a fully male body. We do not generally have that.
Q172 Chair: But if self-identification comes in, then you will be doing that probably in the future, won’t you?
Andrea Albutt: Yes. We do have male prison officers. I do not know what the policy would be, but if the individual said, “I would rather be searched by a man” or, “I would rather be searched by a woman” we would have to somehow work our way through that, but that is not unusual. That is what we do in prisons."
data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/welsh-affairs-committee/prison-provision-in-wales/oral/81757.html
** A male has a 'fully male body' regardless of medication / surgeries. Many prisoners will have had some form of surgery. The removal or modification of a body part does not change the sex of the offender. Presumably if a male prisoner has had an orchidectomy due to treatment for testicular cancer would not on that basis be searched by female prison officers?