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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rory Stewart says 'male prisoners self-identified as females and raped prison staff'

120 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 10/04/2020 13:17

In this month's issue of GQ apparently. Is this true?!

twitter.com/RevStu/status/1248336587831808000?s=20

Rory Stewart says 'male prisoners self-identified as females and raped prison staff'
OP posts:
Datun · 10/04/2020 22:30

I think as prisons minister he did open the first wing for transgender prisoners

Well that's a step in the right direction. I'm just getting mixed messages.

Although, I'm willing to believe that the entire gender critical understanding is a process and takes time for a lot of people.

Prisons, however, I wouldn't have thought so. There's not a single part of me that understands how you can put a man in a woman's prison. It absolutely smacks of total bias in favour of the men, and not giving the women an iota of thought.

NearlyGranny · 10/04/2020 22:57

RS has form fo creative waffling, inrxactitudes and unsupported allegations. He twice asserted on BBC Radio 4's Any Questions programme on 01 Feb 2019 that 12 year olds (plural) armed with knives were killing people. This was in support of new UK legislation. I hunted highh and low through police and government stats looking for even one such killing and found none. Of course I knew that, if true, the press and other media would have had a field day and the world woukd have known.

I contacted the BBC and RS directly as well as my own MP (Cons) asking for evidence to back the assertion or for RS to retract it. Nobody gave me the courtesy of a reply.

RS is not a man to be relied on to tell the truth. I had been impressed with him prior to this episode and was sadly disappointed.

TheCumbrian · 10/04/2020 23:13

RS has form fo creative waffling, inrxactitudes and unsupported allegations

I think he has a knack for picking up on the public mood at the precise point just before everyone else realises there 'is' a mood, and running with it before other politicians catch on. He's a very intelligent man when it comes to reading between the lines, he just can't get people to take him seriously because he flits about too much and sounds like JRM lite.

alloutoffucks · 11/04/2020 02:25

If true, it hasn't necessarily being brushed under the carpet. Lots of women who have been raped by men decide not to take it further because they can't face a trial and in this case the press, and what that would mean. The press then can't report it if no one is actually charged, it would just be a rumour.

Datun · 11/04/2020 06:25

I think he has a knack for picking up on the public mood at the precise point just before everyone else realises there 'is' a mood,

Well the tide is definitely turning.

Lamahaha · 12/04/2020 08:18

'The important thing is: I think the rights of women to feel safe trump the rights of somebody who's biologically male to enter that space.'

There. It's been said, out loud, by a leading politician.

HorseRadishFemish · 12/04/2020 08:30

.. criminals with male bodies...

Is accurate reporting.

Lordfrontpaw · 12/04/2020 08:31

criminals with male bodies Well... I’m not going to say it as I met get put on the naughty step... but you know what I’m thinking...

Datun · 12/04/2020 09:10

In response to concerns about the situation, the Prison Service last year established a dedicated wing for housing some trans inmates at women's jail HMP Downview near Banstead, Surrey.

Was the point of the extra wing being housed in a woman's prison, to pretend that they are actually women? Why the separate wing, in that case? Are they really, seriously saying that these are women with penises, women with male bodies?

The pandering is off the bloody scale.

happydappy2 · 12/04/2020 09:10

He states there were situations, plural not singular, so more than one female prison guard was raped? And Karen White, yet STILL male bodied adults are in prison with women-this is sickening

Lordfrontpaw · 12/04/2020 09:13

It’s in the Mail today.

Cuntysnark · 12/04/2020 09:18

Another thank you for the sunlight. I hope it’s accurate.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 12/04/2020 09:20

criminals with male bodies Well... I’m not going to say it as I met get put on the naughty step... but you know what I’m thinking...

Seeing it’s Easter and the sun is shining on the naughty step - I’ll say it.

Men men men.

I am happy to call transwomen transwomen - but if they rape and sexually assault as men, then they are men - clouding male patterned criminality disadvantages all of us.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 12/04/2020 09:25

I really hope that if some poor woman has been raped at work that it becomes a domino which puts an end to the nonsense that people like Karen White and Paris Green should be housed anywhere near our society's most vulnerable women.

This is state sanctioned rape.

Lordfrontpaw · 12/04/2020 09:28

(I was going to mention Denis Nielsen and his male bodies... he was a criminal and he did have male bodies)

OhHolyJesus · 12/04/2020 09:41

So are all the male prisoners who think they are/pretend to be women in Banstead Surrey, or are there prisoner of this type housed in women's prisons up and down the country?

If the latter then what was the point of bounding a special 'trans' wing of a women's prison and whilst they are kept separate from the female prisoners is it still maximum security for prisoners who have committed sex-related crimes?

I'd love to have a chat with Rory, I wish he was my MP so he would have to talk to me as a constituent.

R0wantrees · 12/04/2020 10:10

I'd love to have a chat with Rory, I wish he was my MP so he would have to talk to me as a constituent.

Prior to the CV 19 crisis Rory Stewart was spending evenings/overnight stays with people living in London in order to listen to their concerns.

R0wantrees · 12/04/2020 10:21

clouding male patterned criminality disadvantages all of us

Dr Julia Long spoke about this & therefore the importance of naming men in 2017 WNTT speech following the assault of Maria Maclachlan by T Wolf at Speakers' Corner.

(transcribed by PencilsInSpace)

extract:
"So why then is it important to make this distinction between sex and gender and why is it important to name men as men? Naming men as man was such a vital part of the women's liberation movement and feminist scholarship back in those early days. There were lots of books that had 'silence' in the title or essays that had 'silence' in the title because it was about women breaking the silences of our own lives and naming who was doing what to whom, and then seeing that there were patterns of this and that is how feminist theory emerged. So it's really crucial to name men as men because that is how we develop an understanding and an analysis of patriarchy. That's how. If we can't name men as men then we can't name patterns of male violence, we can't name who is in control.

So naming men as men, then, enables us to answer these kinds of questions: Who controls economic, social, political and cultural systems and institutions? In whose hands does this kind of economic and social and political power lay? Well, if we can name men as men then we can see exactly where it lies. And it also helps us to answer the question, who's doing what to whom? And so again, over decades, feminists have answered that question in terms of looking at what we know women are subjected to under patriarchal power relations between women and men: femicide, female infanticide, sex-selective abortion, female genital mutilation, rape, sexual assault, domestic violence, poverty, economic disadvantage, prostitution, pornography, discrimination, objectification - I'm thinking here in addition to all the sex industry, but just the normalised objectification of high heels and make up and cosmetic surgery and all of this stuff - illiteracy - hugely more of the world's poor and illiterate are women rather than men - denial of reproductive rights, exploitation of reproductive and domestic labour ... I mean that was just a kind of quick list off the top of my head. Also, historically we can think about foot-binding, and I think we need to think about things like chest binding in relation to these factors, and also of course, witch-burning, and we've got a nice little example [referring to protesters outside chanting 'burn it down']... fortunately, touch wood, they haven't gone quite that far yet, but in terms of 'kill all TERFs' I think there is certainly echoes of former persecution of women, in terms of the current ... oh, it's gone a bit quiet there ... in terms of the current persecution by our friends outside." (continues)

pastebin.com/nGwr3i4U

** copyrite permissions available

Angryresister · 12/04/2020 10:57

I am so angry that this has happened to women working in prisons but surprised this has not come out before. Anyone able to do a FOI on this? Is the Prison Officers Union saying anything? I really hope the ministry will now stop this shit happening ,if anyone is taking any at the moment. Is the Mail the only paper reporting?

R0wantrees · 12/04/2020 11:11

From Mail:

"Mr Stewart told GQ magazine: 'When I was Prisons Minister, we had situations of male prisoners selfidentifying as females then raping staff in prison.'

The claim is the first public reference to trans women assaulting prison staff in women's jails, but it follows warnings that allowing malebodied criminals into female jails puts women in danger.

It was reported last year there are up to 1,500 inmates who describe themselves as transgender among the 90,000 prisoners in England and Wales – raising concerns that some are claiming to be trans to get access to women's jails.

In 2018, a transgender inmate was found to have sexually assaulted women in a female prison.

Karen White, born Stephen Wood, had been sent to HMP New Hall near Wakefield, West Yorkshire, despite having had neither surgery nor hormone treatment – and despite being a convicted paedophile on remand for grievous bodily harm, multiple rapes and other sexual offences against women.

In response to concerns about the situation, the Prison Service last year established a dedicated wing for housing some trans inmates at women's jail HMP Downview near Banstead, Surrey." (continues)

Vunerable female prisoners & female prison staff abused by male prisoners who have identified as women and treated as such by the state?

It is shocking that the rapes of prison staff have been supressed/covered up.

DerelictWreck · 12/04/2020 11:41

It doesn't really matter whether he believes TWAW or not though, does it?

Now he's said it and it's picking up some interestingly positive traction on Twitter, it can have some good impact whether it's true or not. Maybe it'll give the next politician the strength to say the same when they do believe it, or think critically if they're not sure.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/04/2020 12:03

It is shocking that the rapes of prison staff have been supressed/covered up.

It really is.

R0wantrees · 12/04/2020 12:04

Maybe it'll give the next politician the strength to say the same when they do believe it, or think critically if they're not sure.

14 September 2018 James Kirkup Spectator
"If MPs can’t debate a rapist in a woman’s jail, politics has failed"

(extract)
ast week, it was confirmed that the State put a rapist and paedophile in a women’s prison. That rapist, who uses the name Karen White, then sexually assaulted four women in that prison.

This is, of course, an outrage, a failure of public administration of the first order. Many people are angry, among them members of the Government that oversaw this failure. Many people have questions about how that failure came about. How did the Prison Service come to decide that Karen White, a person with a male body and a history of violent sexual crimes, should be put in New Hall prison? (New Hall, incidentally, also has a 'mother and baby unit.' The State did not just put a rapist in a women’s jail, they put a convicted paedophile in prison with children).

Was this just a catastrophic failure of judgement? Was it the result of flawed policy on the handling of transgender inmates? Did a climate of unthinking acquiescence to the demands of a highly effective transgender rights lobby contribute to this horrible mistake?

These are all legitimate questions, questions that should be debated and answered by the ministers responsible. These are the questions that Parliament exists to debate: questions about the conduct of public policy.

As I and others have noted repeatedly, a lot of politicians privately ask such questions about transgender issues, but many keep quiet about it – for fear of being labelled 'transphobic' or worse. I know serving ministers who have real doubts about some of these things, but dare not speak publicly.

Fortunately, a few MPs are willing to speak out. The obvious seriousness of the Karen White case persuaded more than one MP that the Commons should call a minister to explain and account for the incident.

David Davies, Tory MP for Monmouth, thus tabled an Urgent Question, a parliamentary request for the House to summon a minister to discuss the issues raised by the Karen White case, and of other transgender sex offenders in the prison estate. (Yes, there are others. There is at least one male-born rapist in a women’s prison today.)

The decision to grant a UQ and summon a minister rests with the Speaker, John Bercow. He grants a lot of UQs. That annoys ministers but pleases backbenchers. It’s probably the best aspect of his tenure as Speaker. I know he annoys a lot of people, but he’s been a good servant of the Commons, giving the legislature greater bite on the executive.

Given that, I’d have bet on him accepting a UQ on Karen White and transgender inmates. He didn’t. Mr Davies says the Speaker rejected his request. There are whispers that at least one other MP was also rebuffed.

To recap: the State put a rapist in a jail full of vulnerable women. That rapist then sexually assaulted four of those women. MPs wanted to know how that happened, and to question the ministers responsible for those events. The Speaker of the House of Commons said they could not do so." (continues)
www.spectator.co.uk/article/if-mps-can-t-debate-a-rapist-in-a-woman-s-jail-politics-has-failed

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3365319-new-kirkup-article-about-bercow-s-refusal-to-let-mps-discuss-karen-white

4th June 2018 (the week the Westminster GRA consultation was launched) Bercow hosted a Pink News event at Speaker's House:

Nick Duffy for Pink News
'Speaker John Bercow hits out at media ‘muddying the waters’ on transgender rights
(extract)
House of Commons Speaker John Bercow has hit out at anti-trans voices in the media in a speech at the PinkNews summer reception in Parliament.
(extract)
Speaker Bercow was hosting the PinkNews summer reception in Westminster in partnership with Zurich, which follows events in Cardiff, Edinburgh and Belfast.

Although the holder of the office of Speaker is required to be politically independent, Bercow has repeatedly spoken up in favour of LGBT equality during his nine years in the role. (continues)

In his speech, the Speaker hit out at anti-transgender voices in the media, the week the government launched a much-criticised consultation on gender recognition rules.

He said: “There’s still a huge challenge in terms of the trans community. We need to up our level of standing up for the rights of trans people.

“We shouldn’t allow people to peddle anti-trans messages under the guise of trying to protect other people’s rights. We shouldn’t let people muddy the waters in that way.

“It’s just not people screaming abuse in the streets – it’s sometimes people who have access to the media and can write articulately, and are using their position to push messages which I think result in very considerable and dangerous displays of hostility to trans people.

“Up with that we must not put, as Churchill might have said.”

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/04/speaker-john-bercow-tells-pinknews-reception-2/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3396169-John-Bercow-sex-pest-ridicules-GC-Women-friend-of-Pink-News-Edward-Lord-who-refused-UQ-about-prison-policy-following-Karen-White-Case-Unconnected

Lamahaha · 12/04/2020 15:46

The article was posted in a FB group I'm in, and someone said this:

I love Rory Stewart, but is this true? Also, I've always though he was in the twaw camp. Would like it if I was wrong.

To which the reply came:

you are wrong. He used to be my mp and I spoke to him at a surgery about this. And he doesnt agree with self Id at all.

That seems pretty clear.

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