Billy Bragg

[Cwenthryth]

Yes, really. He retweeted Zoe Williams article as a ‘powerful defense (sic) of trans rights’ and has gone on in replies to demonstrate he has zero understanding of what the issues are here. Keeps complaining about ‘negative stereotypes’. He’s stuck way back in ‘be kind, men are nasty to transsexuals in prison so let anyone self-identify into women’s prison’.

Many women & some men well on the way to ratio-ing him, but will he listen?

twitter.com/billybragg/status/1237489351535271938?s=21

The answer to the Karen White question has been given above:

"Karen White" [is] a terrible error by the prison service, which should not be used to argue against trans rights.

I've had these very words spoken to me. That transwomen belong in women's prisons and if things are organised correctly there is zero risk.

Like many left wing men who romanticise traditional working class stereotypes, Billy views women as helpmeets to support men who are doing the important work.

YY.

I've had these very words spoken to me. That transwomen belong in women's prisons and if things are organised correctly there is zero risk

Neatly forgetting zero risk only occurs when the policy is not to incarcerate males with females.

Neatly forgetting the legal rights of women to have the safety, dignity and privacy of single sex spaces.

I've had these very words spoken to me. That transwomen belong in women's prisons and if things are organised correctly there is zero risk.

Sometimes it helps to focus on privacy and dignity rather than simply risk. They cannot say there is no conflict without saying "trans women are women so you're bigoted for not being comfortable with penises in female spaces". At the very least it makes the misogyny harder to ignore for casual readers.

It also ignores what would be next. That zero risk would mean isolating transwomen in women's prisons and that would be so incredibly discriminatory that that isolation would have to be removed.

The choices are: no transwomen in women's prisons or transwomen in women's prisons having the same restrictions on their movements that women prisoners have.

Helen Staniland on Twitter asks all woke men to say that they are happy with 11 year old girls being forced to undress next to a penis. (Something like that) Many of them can't or obviously realise how it's going to look.

It also ignores what would be next. That zero risk would mean isolating transwomen in women's prisons and that would be so incredibly discriminatory that that isolation would have to be removed.

Exactly.

Aaah, my near neighbour Mr Bragg whose authentic voice of the old East End is now based in rural Dorset.

How very bucolic.

I have always liked Billy Bragg but he's wrong on this and deservedly getting a negative response to his tweets. I am feeling so confused politically, have no idea what is left and right any more. The left seem to be against women's rights, and free speech. Still holding out for Keir Starmer to say something supportive (or even neutral ! ) but expecting him to disappoint and I'll not bother voting at all in the leadership contest.

Never heard of him. Sounds like a total tool so happy to remain ignorant on the total tool

He retweeted Zoe Williams article as a ‘powerful defense (sic) of trans rights’ and has gone on in replies to demonstrate he has zero understanding of what the issues are here. Keeps complaining about ‘negative stereotypes’. He’s stuck way back

Billy Bragg is one of those many people who have been doing the rounds of counter-cultural protest for many decades - and is still saying the exact same things.......... Like the Socialist Workers ( no interest in, or awareness of women's issues at all), the anti -fascists ( often the scariest of the lot when all dressed up in black and their face covered)....

Not surprised to hear this. He's awful.

Littl Billy Bragg is a lefty singer songwriter who has been around forever and has acquired national treasure status. Even those on the right can have a certain fondness for him without agreeing with him.

But he is the original woke bloke.

Like many left wing men who romanticise traditional working class stereotypes, Billy views women as helpmeets to support men who are doing the important work

The bit in italics sums him up exactly.

I'm not surprised - Mr Protest-Singer is like many left wing men, just doesn't see women's rights as an issue

Absolutely!

Recall speaking to a young woman who had joined the SWP ( outside of Labour party conference in Liverpool). she was telling me how she had to give sessions on sexism to the mostly male membership. They thought she was there to make the tea.

Much of the old left is still stuck, exclusively, in fighting for the rights and dignity of the working man.

I am feeling so confused politically

I'm the same. Perhaps I'm hopelessly naive but I really trusted that people on the "left" cared about the vulnerable people (all of them, not just select groups) in society. That they cared about equality and fairness. Instead it's becoming clear that if certain vulnerable people upset the narrative then they just have to get out the way. Poor women in prisons, women struggling to escape prostitution, women in refuges, older women who don't want to share a hospital ward with someone they consider to be male. The Brexit voting working class. It turns out the compassion for these vulnerable people was all surface level. They don't really give a toss. It feels as though I'm seeing everything in a whole new (rather bleak) light.

At least he's giving us yet another insight into the Labour government we might have got.

Sorry Billy, women aren’t emotional support animals for confused men

I loved this reply tweet.

Billy, how about we agree not to negatively stereotype trans people, if you keep rapists out of women's prisons?

But why he can't see that people - just any person - "self-identifying" into another vulnerable group will spell trouble, I just don't know.

He's still thinking, and using, the word "transsexuals" - which the TRA would have his bollocks for - because that's outdated language and the "transsexuals" are called nasty names like truscum now.

Billy Bragg, please allow me to introduce you to autogynephilia, and cross-dressing, sexual fetishes... and then tell me they should be able to self-identify into spaces where women may be vulnerable.

Love the rewording of one of his songs by Karen Ingala Smith in response

KIS is a damned legend.

I read Zoe Williams’s piece over my cuppa this morning and my first response was ODFOD.

Looks like it is time for Billy Bragg to wake up and see what has been going on in the intervening years - judging by the twitter feed.

For many on the left this issue has seemed like a total non-issue......because if it was an issue there would be far much more public debate and media coverage. It has been able to be dismissed to twitter wars and the negative and polarising nature of social media; while everyone else just got on with more important things.

Rather than being truly radical, many on the left have actually become subsumed into the leftist mainstream; as various struggles have borne fruit in terms of civil rights etc. For many gay men...the job is now pretty much done...and they are focusing on the next big oppression. Meanwhile, women are still being expected to shove up and be supportive, and just hand over, out of kindness, any gains that have been made.

He always was a self righteous twerp.

Bragg used to tour as "Billy Bragg and the Blokes"

Inspired by Karen, please share this with the Twitterati:

Billy:
You've had relations with girls from many nations
You've made passes at women of all classes
But just because you're woke, a blinkered privilged bloke
I don't want to cause offence.
I just want you to see sense

Sexuality
Strong and warm and wild and free
Sexuality
Your laws do not apply to me
Sexuality
Don't threaten me with misery
Sexuality
I demand equality

I'm sure that even you must know what sex your body makes you.
Your lungs, your heart, your other parts, you shouldn't be a fake you.
You seem a total jerk before the scientific body of work.

Are you getting wieghed down with all this information?
Safe space deson't mean shared space. Just use your imagination.
Stop playing with yourself in trendy echo chambers.
You used to be my hero. Don't be a complete zero.

exuality
Strong and warm and wild and free
Sexuality
Your laws do not apply to me
Sexuality
Don't threaten me with misery
Sexuality
I demand equality