8 year old boy wants to change with the girls

[FairytaleofBykerGrove]

I’ve been informed that a boy in my daughters class ‘feels like a girl’. He’s been wearing dresses to school for a while (fine) and now wants to change with the girls for swimming. Apparently the children will all accept it no problem and they’d like the parents to do the same. He will be under a poncho towel so we don’t have to worry about his privacy(?) I am really very unhappy with this. Which is why I’m up at 3 in the morning. The other parents I’ve spoken to don’t seem to care either way. I can’t understand it at all. Do you have any advice for me?

Kids learn bigotry through the role models in their lives, think on that instead of bullying an 8 year old

At what age does it stop being bullying for girls to not want to change for swimming in front of boys?

Does it matter if it’s a sweet little boy who wears a dress who everyone has been instructed to be extra kind too, or one of the unspecial 8yo boys who thinks it’s hilarious to make the girls feel uncomfortable by barging in on them changing? How do you tell the difference?

As an adult, do I have to strip down to my birthday suit in front on any man who wants to be there to avoid being a mean old bigoted bully?

At 8 several girls will be starting puberty with breast buds etc. That's not unusual.

A school I know had this at age 7, also swimming.

They arranged for that child to get changed in a cubicle which was in the girls changing room, but with a teacher supervising so they didn't come out until everyone else was changed. The child had been wearing dresses etc since age 4 so everyone was kind of used to the situation.

The school had to be especially careful as it was a diverse catchment and some parents would have prevented their own child from swimming if they thought a boy was in the room when their girls got changed.

In the end, with the simple amendment of a cubicle use, it was fine for all.

I think the boy should stay with the boys. (Out of interest are they wearing trunks or costume.) Surely being with the girls and seeing them change into bathers highlights the differences in his and their bodies.

I'm happy for 'trans' children to wear clothes of the opposite sex, but the reality is their sex isn't changed and that is the constant until hopefully they are 18+ when if they still feel this way, formal transition should start. It will be more harmful to their emotional health to allow them into the girls changing room, for it to later change as they go through primary (as they often separate to change for pe) into secondary school and they are told to stay with the boys.

When I go swimming with my yr4s some of the early puberty girls get changed in the cubicle inside the team changing room. They are already self conscious to other girls by there changing bodies and don't need a boy in the mix.

My son started school swimming lessons aged 8.

He wasn’t happy at all about having to get changed with other children. I explained it was boys only and he accepted it. He would have hated to have had a girl in there.

It’s not uncommon for children to feel self conscious about changing in front of others at that age.

As others point out some of the girls will be pre- pubescent and self conscious about their bodies. This is absolutely not on.

I didn’t grow up in the British culture and dislike the open changing room culture even with “only girls”.

I want my privacy, just as I liked it as a child, and I think students should always be given the option to change alone.

Or at the very least a corner of a not overcrowded room where they could also use a poncho to change inside for their own privacy.

If the trans child needs a poncho for privacy then so does every other child in that changing room. Why does only one child deserve not to have their body seen by others? How can they possibly justify that?

My DD is 8. She wouldn't be happy. She wouldn't say anything at school. She will either bottle it up and have a meltdown at home, or we would be back to school refusal. She won't even get changed in front of her father.

Girls are allowed to have boundaries, even at 'only' eight. How about teaching the boys to be kind and accepting that different people like different things and dress differently, doesn't mean they can't be a boy.

"8 years old and harmess"

MISSING THE FUCKING POINT AS PER USUAL BY MILES. No one, NO ONE, has said he's a "threat". No one is saying an 8 year old is a threat. READ THE THREAD.

I wonder if the school would be so massively accommodating if it was an 8 year old girl wanting to change with the boys....

As PP have said, it’s very sad & worrying that at age 8 girls are already being made to feel being kind matters more than their boundaries.

I also wonder how the girls were asked if they were ok with it? Individually & in private? Or did the teacher ask them in a group along the lines of “now you know timmy wears dresses just like you & thinks he’s a girl just like you, he would like to get charged in here along with you, would that be a kind thing to do or does anyone mind?” I mean Lbr there’s no way being asked publicly as a group any of the girls would say no

you

That was a correction from an autocorrect. If u read the previous post I said that was missing the point because it's about messages and boundries

If he changes under a poncho why not in with the boys, I’m sure boys are kind.

Yes it is always the girls that need to be kind.

I hated having to get changed in a communal room with the other girls after primary school swimming. 8-year-olds aren't toddlers, by that age they have a sense of privacy and most feel embarrassed about others seeing them undressed.

I'm fairly sure that had a boy been allowed into the girls' changing room when I was 8, I'd have refused to swim. It's awful that girls today aren't allowed to have those boundaries. And the idea that he gets a poncho to cover up with but they don't? Don't worry girls, Alfie here feels like a girl so it's okay if he looks at your body, and if you have a problem with that then you're the one in the wrong. Awful.

I mean Lbr there’s no way being asked publicly as a group any of the girls would say no

Not only that but kids like trust and respect teachers. And their parents. They will want to please them and not get into trouble. Which is why it's so harmful because its trusted adults using their position as trusted adults to groom children. As adults and parents we have to make the right decisions even of that means someone hates us or yells at us or we get grief from multiple angles.

Thats our job as grown ups and we take the abuse because its preferable to the alternatives

If this boy is uncomfortable changing with his own sex then the teachers need to address this issue with the boys, not transfer the problem for the girls to deal with.

Are there no cubicles for him to go in? That would seem a reasonable solution.

Unless there are cubicles for everyone, it’s not a solution at all. Poor girls would be racing to get their change done while they have temporary privacy because the boy is in the cubicle. It’s bollocks for the girls, who have to change knowing a boy is watching.

And family changing, where parents are present with their children is a different matter. That would naturally end as the children grew up. Sticking an eight year old boy in with the girls sets a precedent that he has the right to be there. Bad enough when they’re all eight, but they’ll hit puberty in a year or two. I don’t think the people who’ve decided this have considered the girls or the future at all.

Good luck with objecting OP. I would object on behalf of my daughter and if necessary, would demand a separate space for her, if she wanted it at any point.

Maybe the real question is why are the 8-year-old boys so intolerant that a boy who wears dresses doesn't want to get changed with them? If that's actually an issue, sort that out instead of trampling on girls' boundaries. If it's not, then someone needs to be the adult in the situation and say sorry, girls and boys change in different rooms because they have different bodies, not because of how they feel or what they wear. You have a boy's body.

I used to be an adult on the school swim run. The pool was not on site but at the local leisure centre. We had year 3(aged 7-8) and 4 (age 8-9) at the same time. We had enough staff to ensure separation of boys and girls.

So year 3 boys would change in one of the communal changing rooms at one end of the changing area. The year 4 boys went 2 per cubicle at the same end. The year 3 girls were at the other end in the other communal changing room, and the year 4 girls were 2 per cubicle again but at the "girl" end.

As a large 90 students per year intake we always have at least 1 girl who starts her periods in year 4, then a couple more in year 5 etc. Any girl who was self conscious of getting changed from year 4 would go alone in a cubicle but for safety reasons of being alone and out of view, we had to know which child and we dictated the cublicle.

There is a huge difference between changing for PE, where underwear remains on and swimming where the children are completely naked.

I would be wanting an 8 year old boy who doesn't feel comfortable changing with the boys to be in a cubicle by himself and not making the girls feel uncomfortable.

Is there a cubicle he could use?

Completely agree with dark

The girls are not old enough to consent.

They will do or say what they are told is the 'appropriate' thing by adults.

If they are unhappy they do not have the power to say no.

Can't they all have a cubicle each? Easy solution.

Hi OP, I hope you got some sleep. As you can see you are not alone so I hope you feel like you have some support. This is a shit situation for all involved really so I hope you are doing ok. There are things you can do.

Check out Safe Schools Alliance who have resources like template letters:

safeschoolsallianceuk.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/singlesextoiletsfactsheet.pdf

You can contact them for support and I there will be more support here too.

I agree that you need to say no on behalf of your daughter as she is 8 and should not have to be extra nice and take on the responsibility of someone else's happiness or comfort.

If he's getting dressed under a poncho, why can't he change in the boys changing room? Doesn't the same apply that his privacy is protected?

Why is it that the girls have to compromise on this to accommodate a boy's need?

Same in my son's Y3 class. Everybody calls this child "she" and "her" and all her friends are girls, I'm not sure how far they go with asking each girl how they feel but my 7yo spoke about it like she was just another girl. They don't take their underwear off for PE. I think at this age it's a lot easier, they're mostly all innocent - boy, girl who cares. It'll be a lot different Y4/5/6. Swimming I can imagine would be particularly difficult.

I think the best thing to do for everyone when older, is that she changes in a cubical/empty classroom with teacher outside. I do feel for that child though, being segregated like that.

Re all the kids learn stuff

Isn't this then teaching an 8 year old boy not to respect the dignity of girls bodies and their privacy and teaching him that he has a privilege where all girls have to be nice to him because he is 'special'.

No this isn't OK.

Teaching girls that they have equal rights to bodily privacy is not bigotry.