8 year old boy wants to change with the girls

[FairytaleofBykerGrove]

I’ve been informed that a boy in my daughters class ‘feels like a girl’. He’s been wearing dresses to school for a while (fine) and now wants to change with the girls for swimming. Apparently the children will all accept it no problem and they’d like the parents to do the same. He will be under a poncho towel so we don’t have to worry about his privacy(?) I am really very unhappy with this. Which is why I’m up at 3 in the morning. The other parents I’ve spoken to don’t seem to care either way. I can’t understand it at all. Do you have any advice for me?

Right, it's not a 'point' to say everyone posting here assumes trans people are predatory; it's merely an assertion. I'd go so far as to call it an accusation and a slur.

I can see that believing this in the face of all the evidence to the contrary might make the poster more comfortable and enable them to 'other' feminist voices and ignore the valid concerns being raised, but it won't change reality.

Many people posting here are deeply concerned for the well-being of a youngster who has somehow been excluded (bullied?) by the boys and feels safer among the girls. I tremble over what might come next for that child: doses of cross-sex hormones? Surgery? A lifetime of medicalisation?

Our concern is not just for the little girls in this case but for all children everywhere exposed to this new set of beliefs: the children being peddled lies and half-truths about how changing their sex is as easy as changing their socks.

We are sowing the wind and we will reap the whirlwind.

The reason he is to be the sole poncho wearer is so he can hide his male body from the girls in order to gaslight them while seeing himself surrounded by girls in a state of undress meaning he can feel he's in a fantasy world.

The unhealthiness of this is remarkable. Where will it take the boy in the future?

Indeed, Nauticant. How bizarre is it that the school think the girls not being exposed to his boy body makes it ok? That they must be exposed to him is an utter irrelevance

Possibly, Nauticant. I also wondered if the boy had been teased by the other boys and had thus become horribly self-conscious of his dress/male body parts - hence the poncho.

However, that wouldn’t explain why he couldn’t wear the poncho and change with the boys after they’d received a talking to about bullying. Or indeed, change in a wholly separate place. Obviously, kind girls must be called to do their duty while any potential embarrassment they might feel is ignored.

Indeed, nauticant.

The girls-only changing room is already like one big poncho - for the girls!

There's no need for additional measures for their modesty. Its single sex status takes care of that.

The boy should not be cross dressing at school at all. He should be wearing the boy’s uniform & then he wouldn’t feel he needed to change with the girls. At home he could wear what he wanted. It’s ridiculous to be giving in to an 8 year old at all & expecting all the other children to go along with it.

Once it's established practice the girls won't be able to go back on the arrangement. By the time they leave this school many will have breasts, be wearing a bra, and a few will be menstruating. It's not fair to give them mixed sex changing.

There is no way adults should be putting the responsibility on children to say whether they object or not. OP and any other girls' parents who are willing need to stand up for what is in the girls best interests even if the girls don't see it that way. Ultimately this is all going to have to be tested in court.

I’m not sure why being obsessed with Elsa would give him the impression that he can be a girl if he chooses to be?

Believing that you are a girl if you wear a dress, is entirely in line with a 5-year-olds developing understanding of the sexes. Wanting to emulate a favourite character is also perfectly normal at this age. My youngest thought he was Spiderman and went everywhere jumping around the floor, shooting imaginary sticky webs out of his hands.

And woe betide anyone who messed with the fantasy.

Yes, it is perfectly normal and not a sign of anything untoward in the vast majority of children. The problem starts not when parents say, alright then Spiderman or come along Elsa, but when you allow the fantasy to override reality.

And Greenkit did exactly the right thing - let the boy play out his fantasy without judgement, but assert the boundaries that apply to him even in the real world.

CharlieParley

Thank you

'cross dressing' is not something kids do. Kids can wear whatever clothes they want - uniform should be unisex and all kids should be free to wear what they please.

Clothing has nothing to do with their sex.

Greenkit Youve got it easy, at that age my daughter was trans species and identified as a cat, she ate from her bowl on the floor, and slept in a curled up cat position still wearing a furry tale and cat ears. Would only communicate in meows. I drew the line at using a litter tray though. Boundaries!

because you all assume men are predatory

All men aren’t predatory. But most women have at sometime felt at risk from predatory men.

This boy should be given his own space to change. It can’t be that difficult to explain that although he feels as though he is a girl, he has a boy’s body and whilst it is understandable he doesn’t want to change with the boys, it isn’t appropriate to change with the girls.

Agreed, field.

If men arent all predatory then why do some want into the womens.

Its infuriating how when we want space away from men and boys we are deemed bigoted and accused of assuming all.mem are predators.

Yet they can use violence from men as a reason to tell women to be kind and shove up.

12StarintheMorning

Yes my daughter was the same until about 12yrs, she acted out in school as well. Everyone thought it cute.

She's 23 now and still.meows sometimes 😂🙀🤷‍♀️

I spent about two years at that sort of age pretending I was riding a horse all the time. I cantered everywhere and dismounted for meals. My DNeice was a lion cub for ages. Kids do that sort of thing all the time.

I see men who demand access to the undressed bodies of women and girls and sex segregated spaces (whether they self identify as women or not) as predatory. People who don't respect boundaries are predatory.

I really don't understand why people think this is any kind of gotcha. If born males don't want to be seen as predators then respect the rights of women and girls to sex segregated spaces. If you can't do that then expect to have your motives questioned.

Some males - and some transwomen - are predatory, however. That is beyond dispute. The trouble is, of course, that it's impossible to know which ones just by looking. That's why women, the ones with life experience of growing up as girls, have a range of strategies for keeping ourselves as safe as possible, including valuing and using same sex spaces for vulnerable activities. That's why we're arguing for keeping those spaces same sex. When literally any male can identify as a transwoman and walk straight in unchalleged, what will stop the predatory ones?

As always, it's not the nice people we're worried about, but by the time we can tell the difference, of course it's too late.

It's a sort of coronavirus for girls and women. Our preferred strategy is to maintain boundaries, keep our borders.

Instead we are being driven to self-isolate.

DD was a baby dragon. It involved walking around the playground in a style similar to Cossack dancing for some reason.

Any news OP?

No news. School has closed. I’d say the head is hoping and praying the whole swimming fiasco will have to be cancelled too so they don’t have to deal with it.

Ah yes, Fairytale, the old "kick the can down the road" strategy.

Oh yea, of course. You’re in the republic. Good luck!