8 year old boy wants to change with the girls

[FairytaleofBykerGrove]

I’ve been informed that a boy in my daughters class ‘feels like a girl’. He’s been wearing dresses to school for a while (fine) and now wants to change with the girls for swimming. Apparently the children will all accept it no problem and they’d like the parents to do the same. He will be under a poncho towel so we don’t have to worry about his privacy(?) I am really very unhappy with this. Which is why I’m up at 3 in the morning. The other parents I’ve spoken to don’t seem to care either way. I can’t understand it at all. Do you have any advice for me?

Of for goodness sake this is an 8 year old. The child is no threat to anybody. Move on.

In a report by the BBC I've just read about "school sex crime reports" it said: "In some cases the victims and suspects were both five years old."

You, jennerofkensinton, are mimmymumming, sorry, minimising the potential sexual assault of children. On a feminist board. You should be ashamed of yourself.

@PlugholePencil exactly! simple solution win win for everyone transgirl doesn't have to share with the boys and the girls don't have to share their space with a biological boy.

I would worry about a precedent being created.

It's ludicrous but its got nothing to do with the "patriarchy" In thousands of classrooms across the country, extremely unruly/undisciplined students are allowed to disrupt the learning of the rest of the class. This is because our society is obsessed with the rights of the individual even when it is at the expense of the rights of the many, particularly within the state school environment. The right of one child to be in a mainstream learning environment is prioritised over the rights of 30 to be in an environment primed for learning. Witnessed it first hand. This is just an extension of that extreme mentality.

Dalishelf
Why is saying transwomen are men who wear women’s clothes deemed offensive?
Isn’t that the reality of their lives?

I find it incredibly offensive than men’s who ‘feel like’ women ignore the reality of actual women in this country and trample all over their rights. They don’t care about my feelings so why should I care about theirs?
Woman isn’t a feeling.

Could you ask the school to give the reasons why they ask children to change separately at all in the first place? (You’ll be looking to an answer that includes all the safeguarding reasons why)

If this new idea is so fine and OK why does the boy need to change under a poncho to hide his body from the girls?
Why would the girls not also need to change under a poncho to hide their body from the boy, since he has been allowed to use their changing space?

Have the other boys in his class made this child feel uncomfortable because of what he wears? Why can’t he change with them as normal?
Are the school not dealing with that? They are not seriously saying there is some kind of risk to the child from his male child peers, are they?
This is a problem for school management to solve, not for 8 year old girls.

If it doesn’t matter why aren’t all the boys in together getting changed?

Why is the boy under a poncho, if it doesn’t matter?

Why can’t the boy change under a poncho in the boys lockers? Surely they’ll be kind to him too?

Why is it unreasonable for girls not to want to have a boy changing under a poncho in their changing room?

Why can’t the boy be kind and understand girls are uncomfortable changing in a room with him, just as he is with them which is why he requires a poncho?

I started my periods at 9, I hated changing with other girls seeing me even as I had the associated pubescent hair on legs and under arms. PE was the bane of my life because of that.

If I was a little girl in that class I would be really upset.

I was a pretty sensitive little girl and we were not a family who got naked! I never liked changing in front of the girls either- very very shy and self conscious - so a boy and his penis would just about finish me off.

So they are all told to be nice to the boy (that must be lovely for him, not a reward for behaviour at all) but the girls have to ‘man up’ and out his feelings first. He is not a girl. He knows that, the kids know that.

Tackle the boys attitude, not the girls natural reluctance to swallow this gender Vs sex nonsense.

I would use the context of the NSPCC Pants guide that all schools teach

www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/support-for-parents/underwear-rule/

On one hand we teach that:

Privates are private
Your underwear covers up your private parts and no one should ask to see or touch them. Sometimes a doctor, nurse or family members might have to. But they should always explain why, and ask you if it's OK first.

And to Always remember your body belongs to you

Your body belongs to you. No one should ever make you do things that make you feel embarrassed or uncomfortable. If someone asks to see or tries to touch you underneath your underwear say 'NO' – and tell someone you trust and like to speak to.

On the other hand we say that girls should be kind and not upset the boy who will be seeing them naked by saying no or even by asking them if they are ok with it.

No way at 8 years old I would want mixed sex changing rooms, I'm so sad for the girls.
Some of them will be starting puberty and getting periods soon.

Unfortunately the nspcc signed off on this crap too.

Captured.

'people are very quick to jump on the 'transgender girls/boys who say they are girls are only doing it because they want to invade female only spaces!' wagon'

Except no one has said that at all @dalishelf

What women have been saying is that girls deserve safety, privacy and dignity. And that means that in communal spaces where they are naked, there are no boys there, however they identify or whatever their motivation.

I think that only refers to boys bits surely? Even boys bits on a girl. That is evident.

Has anyone heard of a girl being allowed to change/sheer with boys?

HE's under the poncho but the girls aren't! HE isn't even saying hes a girl, he just wants to change with the girls! Well now we have really gone over the edge!
I think it would just take one person to wade into this before many peope would come out of the woodwork--"Excuse me, but I find this highly inappropriate. According to the law, girls' changing areas are for girls. While the arrangement that has been suggested protects the modesty of the child who wishes to join the girls, it does nothing to protect that of girls as they are changing into their swimsuits. e girls who are changing into their swimsuits. I am alarmed that this arrangement is being promoted in the name of 'being kind.' There are many ways that girls have been encouraged to cede ground in the name of being kind. Instead of being told to be kind, schools should be teaching girls leadership skills to make them competitive for the future. Schools should promote kindness toward girls by helping them to assert their own legitimate rights, such as those of body privacy."

I find it incredibly offensive than men’s who ‘feel like’ women ignore the reality of actual women in this country and trample all over their rights. They don’t care about my feelings so why should I care about theirs?

That last bit is probably the best sentence I will read on here today.

I would absolutely not be happy about this at all.

Even if he says he is a girl - he just isn’t. Physically and biologically he is a boy.

My daughter feels sorry for this boy and they have already been told to be extra kind to him. She would hate to feel she is upsetting him. THAT'S THE BLOODY ISSUE!

All of the girls have been told, by trusted adults, that it is they that need to pick up the burden of this!*

The emotional labour of womanhood starts here.

@TorysSuckRevokeArticle50
I think it has little or nothing to do with any man/woman dynamic.We live in a culture in which schools (and workplaces etc) are terrified of batshit crazy parents, lawsuits and the tabloid press when it comes to any matter concerning relating to freedom of expression/freedom of assemble/alignment etc etc. The individual is king/queen.

Tell him to act like a girl - and be kind, be nice, think of others first...

And saying that transwomen just wear womens clothes is hugely offensive@AParallelUniverse

So pointing out the actual fact that the majority of transwomen do not have surgery, that the only discernable difference between them and other men is their clothes, is offensive to you? I'm sorry you find facts offensive. Maybe focus some of that self righteous energy into understanding biological facts and risks instead.

Btw, just to make it extra clear to you, that small percentage of transwomen such as India Willoughby and Debbie Hayton, who have gone to considerable effort and not doubt trauma to change their physical bodies, also find this trans ideology problematic. But maybe they're not the right sort of trans for you eh?

the transgender child is, statistically, at more risk than a large group of girls in a school

At risk from what, precisely? And if you have the statistics you are relying on to hand that would really help your argument.

Sex segregation is for safety, privacy and dignity. All of those things are important. For everyone - not just transpeople. We should not, ever, be telling girls that they need to get naked in front of anyone just to "be kind".

the transgender child is, statistically, at more risk than a large group of girls in a school

Actually, you'll be pleased to know that in the UK transgenderwomen are actually one of the safest groups. Far safer than women. Far safer than the men who present as men. So away with your lies and false reporting.

It doesn't matter if this boy is the kindest genuine boy in the class.

The class is separated by sex for changing. He is a boy and should change into his swimming costume with the other boys.

The teachers should teach the other boys that clothing does not change a person's sex and they need to be kind and respectful to all the boys who are getting changed together. Including the child in question.

This is nothing to do with the girls, don't make a boys behaviour issue into a girls problem.

I wonder where this child got the idea from? Did they identify this as one area that distinguished them from the girls (where they changed)? Did their parents suggest it to them? Some professional they are seeing?

Or was it because the boys were making them feel awkward or laughing at them when they changed eg asking where their ‘girl bits’ were?

I’d imagine the latter as the child clearly wants to hide themselves under a poncho. If that is the case, the problem is the teasing from the boys and that’s what should be dealt with. This child changes under a poncho (if they want) in with the boys and the boys are clearly told that any comments are unacceptable. The poncho will protect the child’s privacy in with the boys. If the child is still concerned, they can change away from the others in a cubicle or similar.

The poncho suggests to me this child has issues and needs support. But that does not mean they get to invade the girls’ space and privacy.