Suzanne Moore- The Guardian on Selina Todd

[Ontheblackhill]

Presumably you have all seen this......

www.theguardian.com/society/commentisfree/2020/mar/02/women-must-have-the-right-to-organise-we-will-not-be-silenced

Buzz I was about to hotly defend India Knight, but I see you had mixed her up with India Willoughby..(.not something I imagine she has had before ..chalk and cheese).

Excellent article- thanks for sharing

Why do women have to fall over themselves to thank someone for doing less than the basic?

Harsh but not inaccurate.

Moore's article is fabulous. But allowing her to publish one article is not evidence of any change of tack at the Guardian. Thanking Kath Viner is just ridiculous.

Rather, she needs a flood of emails saying "I read this with my ad blocker on and it will remain on until this is the standard editorial line in your paper. And don't bother continuing to beg me for a fiver. Make your default position a robust defence of women's rights and I might consider it. But it's going to take a lot more than one article, love. You've got a long way to go."

Woo hoo! And not before time. Thanks Suzanne x

TELI (The UK's first Trans Equality Legal Initiative, bringing together Human Rights Lawyers, Trans Activists and Diversity Professionals) tweet about The Guardian:

“It is the third resignation from the paper’s UK office in months over the issue.” Imagine being trans and working among these people every day. Do the words “hostile work environment” mean anything to you
twitter.com/UKTELI/status/1234925161436139525

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374926-What-influence-does-TELI-have-on-government-public-services-and-charities-policies-Co-founders-include-Jess-Bradley-Tara-Hewitt-and-Michelle-Hudson

mobile.twitter.com/bindelj/status/1234970819186397184

“You know that person who had said Suzanne Moore’s column made her absolutely terrified to go into work today? And then claimed she resigned today as a result of the transphobia? She resigned three weeks ago. Fact.”

SparklingLime

Why exaggerate, @DresdenChina? I am not ‘falling over myself’, or offering her my ‘grateful appreciation’.

Please dont take a general comment on all people who are contacting Viner, and a general comment on womens socialisation and take offence as if i have personally harangued you - because i have not. Do however consider what ive said generally because its a fair observation, maybe you are just feeling defensive because you know its true? People ARE falling over themselves to contact her and be 'grateful' Fact.

What i am most certainly NOT doing is exaggerating and i have 2000 years of proof as do you.

Dont come back at me - im not in the fucking mood.

If you didnt 'get it' already i wrote that comment before i even saw yours...

Send thanks if you want, tell Viner to fuck the fuck off for too little too late if you want.

But don’t come here and get shirty with FWR posters about a minor point of difference.

We get plenty of authoritarian disapproval from the other lot!

Very brave and welcomed

Very entertained at the update that poor scared Jess had actually already resigned weeks ago. What impressive prescience.

Oh my Jess had already resigned bet Jess is kicking Jess-self for jumping the gun

Rather, she needs a flood of emails saying "I read this with my ad blocker on and it will remain on until this is the standard editorial line in your paper. And don't bother continuing to beg me for a fiver. Make your default position a robust defence of women's rights and I might consider it. But it's going to take a lot more than one article, love. You've got a long way to go."

Yep good point.

Huff post is hilarious. The Great Flounce.

I was embarrassed for them reading the Guido Fawkes piece on this. I love Jane Clare Jones and I would love the left to ‘go back to what it once was’ just as much as the next Labour voter. But that ship has sailed and sunk, as PP have said.

I don’t want to have to write to support an editor or paper who have bowed to a misogynistic, homophobic, authoritarian agenda for absolutely years now and who have done more than most to perpetuate this shit and its very successful regulatory capture.

One decent summing-up article does not making a gender critical summer over at the Guardian.

Time to show some ethical leadership as editor, Katharine Viner and your senior team defend free speech to your own staff and readers yourselves. You are running a fucking newspaper after all.

I don't see this as being about thanking or offering support. The point for me is, would it help us win this fight if a leftish mainstream media outlet were to host a proper debate? If yes, is there anything we can do to help make it happen?

Sorry, not read all the comments, so hope Ive not misinterpreted what people are saying about contacting Viner. I sent a message to Viner. Not thanking her though. Just stating how great I thought Suzanne Moore’s article was and how important it is for The Guardian to present the concerns of many women especially as many have just the values that TG used to represent. Also had a dig about importance of investigative journalism into issues where injustice is apparent - children transing/safe spaces=freedoms of speech.
I think that getting your voice heard at any opportunity is really important. There will be loads of complaints re Suzannes articles from trans side so I think it’s worth showing support.

The irony is that it was only last week that the Guardian published an article saying that the ‘free speech crisis’ was a right-wing conspiracy theory.

Maybe the fallout from the mass flounce will finally send the message that it isn’t.

Sarah Ditum has just tweeted that Jess actually resigned weeks ago @Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons

The irony is that it was only last week that the Guardian published an article saying that the ‘free speech crisis’ was a right-wing conspiracy theory.

They have one of those virtually every week. I've posted above re. my perfectly factual comment that got deleted on yesterday's.

Jess’ actions in relation to the Suzanne Moore article put me in mind of this extract from a Quillette piece by Marcus Evans, former governor of the Tavistock:

Basic biological realities and differences between sexes can provoke intense feelings of exclusion in some members of the trans community. Every person is different, but some individuals seem to believe that they have been traumatically excluded from their rightful female gender, and so any attempt by natal women to exclude them is experienced as a psychological attack (as evidenced by their sometimes shockingly intense expressions of anger at biological women).

I believe that this sensitivity to exclusion from female spaces is sometimes related to unconscious anxieties and grievances associated with traumatic separation from the primary carer. This helps explain why some members of the trans community act as if their psychological wellbeing hinges on their right to enter any female space whatsoever, even though biological women can feel this to be intrusive and threatening.

It’s why the transactivists hate Mumsnet too. We just aren’t taking care of the poor, defenceless little darling’s psychological needs in the way that nice mummies should

quillette.com/2020/01/17/why-i-resigned-from-tavistock-trans-identified-children-need-therapy-not-just-affirmation-and-drugs/

Hefty dollop of narcissism too I think. The concept of narcissistic injury is well known.

He’s right. It’s mummy issues taken to the fullest.

That a lot of these super-fragile, hyper-offendible, young transwomen are actually mentally ill is very clear I think . . . They suffer, not because they are trans and we all horrible to them (as the lobby claims), but they are trans because they were already suffering and reached for this as a solution . . But it's not working 100%, naturally.
It's why claims like "trans people are more likely to commit suicide, be homeless etc etc" are so annoying - cause and effect the wrong way round IMO.
Maybe we could find it in ourselves to be sympathetic, at least, if not 'kind' or gullible when it comes to their underdeveloped views. I'm sure a significant proportion are abuse-survivors of some kind.

I can't find anything online but on r4 this morning there were news items about a rising number of children approaching a charity regarding suicidal thoughts.

This wasn't about any group or 'type', just kids. I was wondering why this is. More stress and pressure (my parents lived through WW2 as children and were respectively bombed out, saw bodies, had relatives killed/returned from POW camps etc)? More social media - so bullying? Crazy, unattainable lifestyles presented as the norm? Websites glamorising anorexia, self-harm...?

To be fair, most of us have tried being sympathetic, most of us started out really sympathetic.
It turned out that the mental illness that causes this will accept nothing but complete capitulation, which means accepting AND proclaiming that there is no difference whatsoever between female people and the male people who believe they have female brain.