Moral Maze - Radio 4 8pm 19 Feb - Transgender Rights

[CaveMum]

Transgender Rights is the topic of tonight’s episode.

Woman’s Place have tweeted that they are taking part and that the Labour pledge (and slurs against WPUK and LGB Alliance) will be discussed.

twitter.com/womans_place_uk/status/1229901138192891904?s=21

It's not just a poem about another women's arse.

It's about an explicitly young teen woman, and the poet's covetous desire. Sorry to all those who find this as distasteful as I do, but this is absolutely pertinent to the issue - Mann was a guest on a BBC programme, and is clearly motivated by the same highly questionable kinds of thought processes as the odious Fae. Mann is billed as a respectable, progressive vicar type. If an acknowledged male vicar wrote poems about watching and objectifying teenaged girls on buses, I don't think they'd get the same kind of kid glove treatment.

Comment by Jane Fae :
"I transitioned late. I wish I had known. And I really, really didn’t know. When I was young, and I shan’t, take a stab at the ages of people on this table, but, when I was young, trans was something that vicars did, erm, with someone else’s vest in their pantry, or pants in someone else’s vestry or whatever. It was a Sunday tabloid freak show sort of thing." (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3827771-Moral-Maze-Radio-4-8pm-19-Feb-Transcript?pg=2&messages=25

Interesting choice of transwomen on that programme.

An advocate of extreme porn and a vicar who has written a poem which is pure AGP.

Have they finally decided to show the trans movement for what it is - a men's sexual rights movement?

I think Mann & Fae are regular BBC commentators, especially Radio 4.

And yet I am still questioning why Glinner’s brief mentioned Information to be used so adversially and Jane F’s past advocating extreme porn and horrid DV comments weren’t.

I mean, considering JFs past why would BBC think they were the right fit or was it a deliberate way to undermine credibility? And why in light of that creepy poem was the vicar on the panel. Two TW that seem all about the sexualisation of women on that side of that debate. Nice one beeb.

Sorry. X post with old crone

The pants in vestry and vest in pantry was a very funny word joke about the evidence of an affair between a vicar and his housekeeper, nothing to do with trans. It was probably from The Two Ronnies, they were so good at that sort of wordplay.

Horrible, dehumanising description of a young woman by the vicar. Not any acknowledgement that she might be a human being as well, just a quite a quite unpleasant description of her body, pure objectification. Talking about her skin being orange is also a pretty lazy and demeaning way to indicate a lower class woman too, and 'wielding her arse like a weapon' - yes, cos that's what we women when we get on a bus, isn't it? Push our arse in men's faces because we just love being sexually harassed on public transport, we're literally walking around in a Benny Hill wonderland. Also, they simply had to mention their own chemically induced breasts, didn't they? And of course this monstrosity was written on a women's writing course, so not only are they behaving like a garden variety male lech, they're seeking validation as a woman while doing it. I don't know why the f* this person was invited on the radio and find it terrifying that the trans flag is providing cover for these kinds of creeps hiding behind it.

The pants in vestry and vest in pantry was a very funny word joke about the evidence of an affair between a vicar and his housekeeper, nothing to do with trans. It was probably from The Two Ronnies, they were so good at that sort of wordplay.

Thanks for trying to explain this. I thought Fae was all over the place, but this little aside was the most mystifying.

I saw that 'poem' on YouTube a couple of years ago and thought it was as good a description of agp as I have ever seen. It left me angry at my church, the Church of England for ordaining this person.
They also gave the annual Southwark Cathedral Feminist Theology lecture in 2018. Entitled doesn't even begin to describe this person.

Yes - the likes of Peter Tatchell, Jane Fae etc are not interrogated on their previous and currently held positions to erode boundaries and safeguarding.

Glinner - a leading lefty who did so much in Irish culture to reduce the influence of the RC church (big hint - they weren’t good for women /children) and active in bringing in social change such as gay marriage.

If an acknowledged male vicar wrote poems about watching and objectifying teenaged girls on buses, I don't think they'd get the same kind of kid glove treatment.

You would think the BBC would have learnt some lessons after Saville...

You would think the BBC would have learnt some lessons after Saville...

To buy thicker carpets to brush things under?

This is starting on R4 again right now

I couldn't catch the first broadcast but I'm listening now. Rachel Mann is a very poor ambassador to the "trans rights" cause. Jane Fae is on now and I'll mute my commenting to avoid giving our monitors an easy scalp. I'll say this though, why is Jane Fae so keen on "trans youngsters" being given puberty blockers and put in the path to sterility and no sexual function? And the fucking sighing.

The programme isn't ideal but it would have been impossible to have been broadcast on the BBC more than a year ago.

I'll say this though, why is Jane Fae so keen on "trans youngsters" being given puberty blockers and put in the path to sterility and no sexual function?

The invention of transgender children was an essential part of making the trans movement acceptable to mainstream society.

To understand why the focus has moved onto children, look to the YouTube discussion between TransYouth Family Allies executive director Kim Pearson and transgender activist Autumn Sandeen, who states:

“I’ve always said there are two groups that are going to make change in transgender legislation and the “gender identity and expression” related language in legislation. It’s going to be trans youth because … they demystify it and take the sex right out of the trans experience.”

Pearson responds with:

“Right. And it’s hard to say no to kids, and the needs of kids and “keeping kids safe”. And you know, “being respected in schools” and things like that. It’s really hard for people to say no to that.”

(quoted from Miranda Yardley's site - there was a video on youtube but it's no longer available)

Transgenderism as a sexual movement (particularly AGP) was always going to be a hard sell to the general public. But if children are transgender, it's obviously nothing to do with sex, so it's harder for people to suggest that any trans identified people might be fetishists, because those children obviously are not. They're a sort of human shield.

Why do they have to be medicated? Perhaps it's because once on puberty blockers, very few, if any, children desist, which supports the transactivist line that they have always been like this, and they 'knew' they were the opposite sex from early childhood, and these children are just like they were (even though most trans-identified children would desist and probably grow up to be gay if left untreated with puberty blockers, but late transitioning males are overwhelmingly heterosexual).

I don't even know if it is possible to mention this but a lot of trans people online seem very keen on getting new "recruits" generally speaking - it's not only children. It's not uncommon for commenters on Reddit to be directed to r/egg_irl (a sub about people who don't know they are trans yet) if they show signs of being GNC or mention AGP-like thoughts.

I think this may be connected with the fact that an aspect of AGP can be to sexualise the MtF transition in and of itself.

Transgenderism as a sexual movement (particularly AGP) was always going to be a hard sell to the general public. But if children are transgender, it's obviously nothing to do with sex, so it's harder for people to suggest that any trans identified people might be fetishists, because those children obviously are not. They're a sort of human shield.

I think this is true. Which is why getting sunlight on to it is vital. As is challenging the creation of an entire cohort of humans who are legal adults but with the genitalia of children.

a lot of trans people online seem very keen on getting new "recruits" generally speaking - it's not only children.

Cults always need new recruits. Young people are always targeted. This movement has an advantage over most other cults because they are able to openly target children with the help of the people who are supposed to be protecting them.

Part of the belief system that Stonewall promotes is that the vast majority of people fit under the trans umbrella. Consequently trans people are the true human norm.
I remember this assertion from when the trans umbrella concept was first introduced well over fifteen years ago. It was not well received by the LGB community at the time.

I think this is the quote that explains how we got here in only 15 years.
"if you want to legitimise your fetish, make sure it is seen as the same thing as gender dysphoria in children and adolescents"

This is interesting. BBC has had a real shift from "#nodebate" to this programme.

It's far from perfect and hard hitting, but, it's a BIG step towards Louis Thereaux doing a documentary on the stealth theft of women's rights by men.