Moral Maze - Radio 4 8pm 19 Feb - Transgender Rights

[CaveMum]

Transgender Rights is the topic of tonight’s episode.

Woman’s Place have tweeted that they are taking part and that the Labour pledge (and slurs against WPUK and LGB Alliance) will be discussed.

twitter.com/womans_place_uk/status/1229901138192891904?s=21

I agree that it’s highly unlikely that anyone on the panel will change their minds, but it is exposing the whole sorry saga to sunlight and hopefully listeners will see it for what it is.

It's the BBC - don't get your hopes up!

Cwenthryth Torr Robinson, the chair of Labour Campaign for Trans Rights tweets twitter.com/Torr_ro

The 'Autonomous campaign of trans and non-binary Labour members fighting for trans rights and liberation' twitter site is twitter.com/Labour_Trans

other members of the committe were announced 13th February 2020:

"LCTR now has it's first committee! If you want to get in touch you can contact
@ Torr_ro
as Chair or for press and media enquiries, our Press Officer
twitter.com/lisa_trandy

We are also pleased to announce
twitter.com/tf_wall
as Secretary and
twitter.com/CharlieXCaine
as Treasurer, alongside our Communications Officer - Our committee will be working with our grassroots working groups for trans liberation!"

twitter.com/Labour_Trans/status/1228057759146483713

founding signatories/members (?)
Torr Robinson, Beckenham, London Young Labour Trans Office
Gwen Wall, Maryhill and Springburn, fundraising officer
Beth Desmond, Brighton Pavilion
Christie Neary, Hornsey & Wood Green. National Education Union
Lauren Rae Harley, Greenwich and Woolwich
Arthur Webber, Peterborough, LGBT+ Officer
Florence Corf, Bethnal Green & Bow, Queen Mary Labour Society LGBT+ officer
Emrys Woodward, Richmond Park
India (Dee) Peploe, Poplar and Limehouse, Vice Chair Goldsmiths Labour Club
Quinn Porter, Aldershot
Charlie Knowles, Birkenhead, LGBT+ Officer, Wirral Young Labour Equalities and Inclusions Officer
Lines Robson, Runnymede and Weybridge
Ish Tominey-Nevado, Coventry North West
Juliet Jacques, Hackney North & Stoke Newington
Lena Worwood, Newton Abbot Women's Officer
Laura Hargreaves, Brighton Pavilion
Rosa Kurchaska, Leeds North East
Charlie Caine, North West Norfolk
Ewan Jobe, North Tyneside
Aster Read, Barrow and Furness
Eden Ladley, Macclesfield

The trail for it sounded promising this morning.

It will be interesting to compare with the previous M Maze Cwenthryth linked to above. Jane Fae was the first witness, haven't listened to it all. Hopefully the questioning and unpicking the answers will have moved on.
Jane Fae talks about being an 'accidental activist' which made me laugh considering all the extreme porn advocacy.

From BBC iPlayer blurb:

Transgender Rights
Moral Maze

Two of the final three Labour leadership candidates have signed pledges to defend trans rights, expel party members who express "transphobic" views and fight against Woman’s Place UK, LGB Alliance and “other trans-exclusionist hate groups”. Both those groups cited insist they are merely campaigning for the rights of women as they exist under UK Equality law, as well as those of gay, lesbian and bisexual people. This bitter quarrel could be seen as symptomatic of a wider culture war which calls into question the very notions of gender, sex, sexuality, social justice and inclusivity. For many trans activists, a failure to recognise trans women as women or trans men as men is itself hateful, because they believe it denies the most fundamental fact of their identity. Their critics, however, accuse them of denying a biological reality that sex is determined at birth. It is, they say, unreasonable to refuse even to discuss the subject. For those prepared to debate, there’s a lot to think about. What constitutes “transphobia”? What are the moral implications of gender self-identification? What rights and protections should be afforded to ‘biological’ females in women's changing rooms, refuges and prisons? What does gender self-identification mean for women’s sport? More fundamentally, where does ‘masculinity’ end and ‘femininity’ begin? How should we respond to the increasing numbers of children and teenagers, particularly girls, being diagnosed with gender dysphoria? And what ethical considerations should apply in deciding whether and how to treat them? With Jane Fae, Graham Linehan, Torr Robinson and Kiri Tunks.

Producer: Dan Tierney.

Show less

Release date:19 February 2020

"sex is determined at birth" is from the same stable as "assigned at birth". A rather Butlerian turn of phrase. Sex is determined at conception* and then observed at birth and may indeed have been observed before that. They may be saying determined=observed but they could do with being clearer.

• intersex, spectrum of sex, speggs, blah blah blah

Jane Fae talks about being an 'accidental activist' which made me laugh considering all the extreme porn advocacy.

thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374614-John-Ozimek-now-Jane-Fae-on-women-feminists-and-victims-of-pornographers

Fae went public about transitioning less than two months after telling immediate family:
Feb 2010
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1252462/Andrea-Fletcher-devoted-fiancee-whos-sticking-man-John-Ozimek-despite-fact-wants-woman-named-Jane-Fae.html

September 2018 Jane Fae organised a TRA conference, 'We're Still Here'. Dawn Butler MP (shadow Women & Equalities) was the keynote speaker.
The report by TheHarpySings is really important reading:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

A preview of Torr Robinson's evidence & background to the Labour Trans Campaign can be heard from 05:00 on 'What the Trans!?' podcast:

whatthetrans.com/ep-40/

Having listened to previous programme Mona Siddiqui was awful. Again it will be interesting to compare if she's modifying her views. Clare Fox was brilliant on the last programme and it doesn't look as though there's an equivalent on this panel.

Woman's Place UK tweet:
"Tonight, we will be speaking up for women’s sex based rights. #SexMatters #MoralMaze "
twitter.com/Womans_Place_UK/status/1230195997957115904

Does the world really need another 5 minutes of Jane Fae talking?

Here it is...

Michael Burke setting it out well. He's done his research.

Whoa! Portillo on side!

Yay, I knew I always liked Mr Portillo and his funky taste in trousers!

“What does biology mean?” asks Torr.

Torr not very eloquent

Torr struggling to define a woman.

“You might by now have lost a lot of people...”

Loving Portillo!

My PORTILLO MOMENT

Portillo is asking hard questions.

“Could that not attract bad people”

Portillo pressing on ‘bad men’ and paedophiles exploiting the lack of “policing” of self-ID gender.