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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Line Manager just "come out" as Non-binary

532 replies

SpinningTooFastWantToGetOff · 07/02/2020 18:39

My line-manager emailed everyone in the office last week to say she was non-binary and we should use they/them pro-nouns.
Today I inadvertently called her she in an email to a colleague in another office, but line-manager was copied in, plus her line-manager. Are you keeping up? Confused
My line-manager responded to the email and added at the bottom a reminder about her pro-nouns.
I do not believe in the gender identity ideology and so object to being told to speak in an unnatural and incorrect way, but what I am incandescent about is being called out in front of 2 other colleagues.
Am I over reacting?

OP posts:
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Languishingfemale · 07/02/2020 20:09

Interesting that their performance is below par. This is one way of ensuring that people will think twice before criticising their work performance - any challenges will be discrimination....

SpinningTooFastWantToGetOff · 07/02/2020 20:14

YABU it costs you nothing, and shows you respect them and their decision. However, my personal view for the workplace would be "So what?" as I don't see it makes any difference.

It costs me my principles and self-respect.
I have no respect for her anymore after the way she has line- managed me.
I believe her personal feeling have no relevance in the workplace.

OP posts:
SpinningTooFastWantToGetOff · 07/02/2020 20:16

Interesting that their performance is below par. This is one way of ensuring that people will think twice before criticising their work performance - any challenges will be discrimination....

Exactly! Everyone tiptoes round her.

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midgebabe · 07/02/2020 20:22

Some things here are making too much of it

Yes, it's ambiguous if you try to use pronouns to distinguish between jack and Jill, but if it was jack and John in the park you would just use one of the names. It's need not be a barrier to understanding

Personally, I quite like the idea of avoiding the use of sex based identifiers in general

But expecting people to learn everyone's pronouns as well as names is rubbish as is getting upset over them. And fortunately most people don't get at all put out when you forget their name, so what should they if you forget a pronoun

Findumdum1 · 07/02/2020 20:23

I too would just use your managers name, and also "my manager"

So Angela has kindly agreed to assist on this project and Angela will start pulling it together next week.

And to external people - my manager, Angela, and I enjoyed meeting you both last week. Please find some reference material attached that my manager has asked me to send over. Angela thinks you may find it useful.

SpinningTooFastWantToGetOff · 07/02/2020 20:23

I love terfsandwich’s’ idea. Do you think you could do that op?*

I am certainly considering sending an email to colleagues, that I identify as gender-free, but keeping my sex based pronouns as terfsandwich suggests Wink,

OP posts:
terfsandwich · 07/02/2020 20:30

You could say, "I identify as non-binary too, as I don't see myself as conforming to all stereotypes of femininity ascribed to women. This has led me to my sincere, deeply held non binary identity. I suspect many women are similar to me but choose not to draw attention to it where it is irrelevant to the situation. I have also personally come around to the idea that changing pronouns is not my right to ask others; as it is others who use pronouns to refer to me. I believe this is stressful for many, particularly those with autism, who would be discriminated against if they were castigated for being unable to easily switch from a lifelong habit of using w{rds with specific meanings and then suddenly having those meanings change."
I would then add," I gently encourage all working in this office to disclose if they are non binary, as I do not think non binary people who refuse to stop using sex-based pronouns should feel inadequate. "

I'd cc the whole staff. Most women will begin to call themselves non binary at the water cooler, and your line manager will be de-specialised. Grin

Yorkshirelass444 · 07/02/2020 20:30

Leave your politics and the door

it's not political to adhere to biological facts

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 07/02/2020 20:32

Hahaha that’s brilliant. You have to send that, OP.

Yorkshirelass444 · 07/02/2020 20:32

actually that 's quite funny because Boy George recently tweeted:

"leave your pronouns at the door"

now there's a chap who understands the difference between sex and gender

Branleuse · 07/02/2020 20:34

god how embarrassing for her.
If its your actual manager, then I guess youve got to go along with their charade until she hopefully grows out of it.
Id just use her name though

SciFiScream · 07/02/2020 20:37

I firmly believe that every one is non-binary. Because no one is 100% feminine or 100% masculine.

Also non-binary refers almost specifically to sex, there are over 70 genders after all.

Perhaps you could go for xe/xer/xhe?

Maybe you could encourage colleagues to choose unique pronouns too?

wibdib · 07/02/2020 20:41

If you don’t decide to identify as nb (genius suggestion!) I would just send a very bland apology to say that you’re sorry; that this is very new to you and that you’re finding it very difficult to remember to go against the grain of a lifetime of using ‘they’ grammatically correctly not to mention autocorrect helpfully correcting it when it means the sentence is wrong grammatically. That will you will do your best but you expect it will take time to overcome such a basic and embedded speech pattern but that you mean no disrespect and that you are she is understands the cognitive dissonance problems that this is causing you.

Then just drop they in once in a while and carry on regardless...

SpinningTooFastWantToGetOff · 07/02/2020 20:43

Wibdib I like this suggestion too, maybe include the whole office.

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Mlou32 · 07/02/2020 20:44

Non binary, what a load of bloody nonsense.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 07/02/2020 20:46

I’ve grown to love the clunkiness of using an actual name every time, especially third person singular. I demand you all call me Betty/Betty/Bettyself from here on in.

terfsandwich · 07/02/2020 20:47

I wouldn't say you are experiencing cognitive dissonance. They would say that was denying the existence of trans or some bullshit. Under this cult it is verboten to admit any cognitive dissonance.

Imagine if anyone said that to Hayden. Grin you'd be facing a writ before you knew it.

I agree you should add the sincere apology with all the details about how hard it is, as that will give permission to the office, from you, as a valid non-binary identity, to find it difficult to change words.

Bluewater1 · 07/02/2020 20:48

I would respect their preferred pronouns.

GabsAlot · 07/02/2020 20:49

Sorry if this offends anyone but its bullshit and makes no grammatical sense

terfsandwich · 07/02/2020 20:51

I'm having so much fun with this. Grin

You could say at the end of your message, "from one non binary person to another, please accept my sincere apology for inadvertently using your previous pronoun of "she". We are all learning and I will try harder to do better."

This is a typical wokesorry so again she can't accuse you of being a terf - you're using the cult's phraseology.

SlightlyJaded · 07/02/2020 20:53

I would genuinely do what @wibdib suggests.

Make the whole email sound like a long siiiiigggghhh so everyone - including her(they) - know's how fucking tedious you find her(they).

Teateaandmoretea · 07/02/2020 20:53

Non-binary could refer to most people surely, particularly those who identify as feminist?

^^this is what I think. They/them is bollocks though, not least because of its grammatical inaccuracy. But I do not identify with all those ridiculous female gender stereotypes shudder. I am quite clearly a female though 🤷🏻‍♀️

Witchend · 07/02/2020 20:54

Maybe you could reply.
"I apologise for the mistake. I would also like to confirm what I would like to be called. I am going through a difficult period and would like to be known as:
He on Mondays
Them on Tuesdays
Mummy Bear on Wednesdays
Ti on Thursdays
and She on Friday morning and ehs on Friday afternoons.
If you wish to contact me over the weekend please note I only answer to Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
However on dates which are prime numbers please simply address me as Sir.
Thanks."

Pinkyyy · 07/02/2020 20:55

I'd just flat out refuse. There is no way I would let someone dictate me like that.

pourmeanotherglass · 07/02/2020 20:58

I don't see a problem with addressing people how they like to be addressed (within reason). If someone prefers to be called Andy rather than Andrew or katherine rather than Kathy why wouldn't you respect that? I think it's the same with pronouns. There are more important things to argue about, pick your battles.

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