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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Line Manager just "come out" as Non-binary

532 replies

SpinningTooFastWantToGetOff · 07/02/2020 18:39

My line-manager emailed everyone in the office last week to say she was non-binary and we should use they/them pro-nouns.
Today I inadvertently called her she in an email to a colleague in another office, but line-manager was copied in, plus her line-manager. Are you keeping up? Confused
My line-manager responded to the email and added at the bottom a reminder about her pro-nouns.
I do not believe in the gender identity ideology and so object to being told to speak in an unnatural and incorrect way, but what I am incandescent about is being called out in front of 2 other colleagues.
Am I over reacting?

OP posts:
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TalaxuArmiuna · 07/02/2020 19:24

time to start job hunting. an employer that enforces belief in magic feelz isn't going to be a decent employer so best leave asap.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 07/02/2020 19:25

it doesnt cost you anything to respect their request

This.
How does it harm you, exactly?
I'd just respect their decision.
Even though inside if I'm truthful, using plural words such as they and them for a singular person mangles my head lol Grin

Goosefoot · 07/02/2020 19:25

I might have a quick look at the employment rules where you work. If you are risking your employment it would be ideal to know that before you do anything!

I would probably do what others suggested and avoid pronouns altogether. Annoying but I am not willing to concede ownership of pronouns by individuals.

Clymene · 07/02/2020 19:26

Oh it's such a terrible mangling of language.

'Angela met with the committee earlier this week. She explained our position and, after listening carefully, they understood and were happy with our approach.'

Vs

'Angela met with the committee earlier this week. They explained our position and, after listening carefully, they understood and were happy with our approach.'

Second is horribly confusing. So now we have to write:

'Angela met with the committee earlier this week. They explained our position and, after listening carefully, the committee understood and were happy with our approach.'

Which is still bloody confusing because in usual written English, they refers to a plural. They is typically only used to refer to an individual when we don't know who they are (like I just did Grin).

It's bloody confusing and I won't do it. I'd rather just repeat Angela ad infinitum, even though that's clumsy.

My job is to write clearly, often for people with ESL. I'm damned if I'm going to confuse them for the sake of people's vanity.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 07/02/2020 19:26

Leave your politics and the door and put your manners on and behave in a polite way back by respecting this person's feelings.

She’s the one bringing politics and beliefs into work, not the OP, so maybe she should put her manners on and stop enforcing compelled speech. In the part of the health service I was in, we are are not permitted to discuss religion or politics, so why is this line manager abusing her position to bully stay into following her beliefs.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 07/02/2020 19:26

position to bully *staff

SpinningTooFastWantToGetOff · 07/02/2020 19:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ddraigygoch · 07/02/2020 19:28

Honestly I'd start looking for another job.
I couldn't work under somebody this incompetent and I'd lose all respect for them. Which obviously couldn't work as a working relationship.

SpinningTooFastWantToGetOff · 07/02/2020 19:29

Her only topic of conversation is herself. In 18 months she knows nothing about me and had no interest in anyone but herself.

OP posts:
ddraigygoch · 07/02/2020 19:29

Not surprised at all.

thehorseandhisboy · 07/02/2020 19:30

Ah, so you don't like her anyway (with good reason from what you've said).

Just try to avoid pronouns if you can.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 07/02/2020 19:30

but was able to complete an album for her band during her last one as well as perform on stage at gigs.

Hang on! Surely working in another job, while on the sick is a sackable offence?

AutumnRose1 · 07/02/2020 19:31

I’m going to go against the grain

I’d use “they” if I needed to keep the job. Otherwise, use Angela. She will complain that is bullying too.

TheMemoryLingers · 07/02/2020 19:32

This person sounds like a very bad manager, but I think you should keep pronouns out of the matter - they wouldn't be any better as a manager if they'd kept 'she/her' pronouns. Don't judge the idea of having preferred pronouns by your experience of one person who happens to be a poor manager.

AutumnRose1 · 07/02/2020 19:32

X post with your update

This shit is everywhere so it will be likely to end up in the same place.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/02/2020 19:32

It's a cult. Trans... I can kind of understand. Person believes they're in the wrong body. Non-binary makes no sense at all. It's self-indulgent tripe.

NotTerfNorCis, I can't understand any of it. Some of it is probably self-indulgent tripe, people desperate for attention finding a new way to demand it. Some of it is desperately unhappy people who've lost touch with reality. None of it makes sense to me. I was reflecting today that if I had to deal directly with somebody who wanted me to treat them as something other than their biological sex, I would struggle. I don't care how people dress or present to the world. If they want to change their names, fine, go for it. But when it comes to saying 'she' in relation to someone I know to be male, or vice versa, I would find that akin to lying.

I'm not on the autistic spectrum but I have a close relative who is. Maybe this is an autistic trait. I'm not good at holding my tongue or remaining poker-faced when somebody's saying which is obviously untrue or factually incorrect.

HandsOffMyLangCleg · 07/02/2020 19:33

I'd also be looking for another job. This person will be insufferable due to all the attention seeking drama.

In the meantime, I'd use your manager's name instead of a preferred pronoun.

HandsOffMyLangCleg · 07/02/2020 19:34

I would find that akin to lying.

Exactly.

user1494050295 · 07/02/2020 19:37

Rather be known as good at my job. People email me the whole time and spell my name/title wrong. Whatever......

Aesopfable · 07/02/2020 19:38

Preferred pronouns are nonsense if for no other reason than you, and everyone else you are talking to, have no idea what someone's preferred pronouns are unless they are there reminding you all (including the people you are talking to about them). In which case you would use their name. If they are not there then you cannot be expected to learn preferred pronouns for every person you may or may not come across ever.

Qcng · 07/02/2020 19:39

I would never in a million years subject myself to adhering to such self-obsessed crap like referring to them as they.

I went with Kate to the supermarket. There was a crowd of people. I was ok but they were very annoyed.
Who am I talking about???

Just use your co-worker's initials or name.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/02/2020 19:39

In writing, it's possible to re-write in a less clumsy way, but it takes time. I don't know about anyone else but most of the emails I send at work are written very quickly. Having to stop and check the pronoun usage and if necessary re-write in a way I can live with would slow me up a lot.

*Angela met with the committee earlier this week. They explained our position and, after listening carefully, they understood and were happy with our approach.^

Massively confusing.

'Angela met with the committee earlier this week to explain our position and, after listening carefully, committe members understood and were happy with our approach.'

Clearer, but takes longer.

Thinkingabout1t · 07/02/2020 19:41

the mature, respectful thing to do is to make the effort to treat your coworked (manager!!) with decency and sensitivity. That means respecting their pronouns.

Absolutely not. No one has the right to tell us to use their convoluted language and imaginary gender instead of correct English and the laws of biology.

Only, we have to keep our mouths shut at work or risk losing our jobs and potentially our employability. So I feel for you, Spinning, because the sensible thing to do is not the heroic thing.

Karenisbaren · 07/02/2020 19:43

I dont buy all this non binary, gender fluid business.

terfsandwich · 07/02/2020 19:43

I would quietly come out as non binary too - perhaps in a reply to the email thread with the other two colleagues copied in. However I would add that you choose to continue with sex-based pronouns because it can be confusing and distressing for some people, notably people with autism, to be compelled to change the way they use the English language.
Outwoke her!

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