Lang Cleg 2

[TiredofthisBSbutIstandwithLang]

New thread as we got to 1000.

Notbadconsidering
It's ok, I understand what you meant. I don't normally report obvious trolling, goady posters, in fact that's the first time I've ever done that.
That disgusting slanderous slur couldn't be allowed to stand, it was deliberately inflammatory (as MNHQ said)
It couldn't stay and I'll be giving that poster a very wide berth. And the other goady faux wide eyed Anti Women Activists. Of which there are several on FWR.

Back again to see if @MNHQ are still siding with the men over all the female posters who've been here since many TRAs were still at their mother's breast.

This action has simply encoraged me to try harder in real life. The place where I can make a difference, where Twitter is not the be all and end all of people's lives.

If that's the quality of your posts ANewCreation, please don't make that one your last. Well said.

Hi all and thanks for your many comments. We do understand that LangCleg was a much loved poster and it’s clear that she obviously also has a great deal of expertise that Mumsnetters find helpful. But we just can’t exist in a situation where users are persistently aggressive towards, and disparaging of, our moderation team, who are simply trying to do a fair and decent job applying our guidelines. We’ve been pretty clear about this: from my statement on moderation principles for discussions around gender identity and sex ‘One thing we can simply no longer tolerate, however, is rudeness and aggression towards our mod team’.

LangCleg has had over 60 posts deleted and we have emailed many times to politely request that she post within our rules. There is zero evidence that these posts were targeted by Trans Rights Activists - reports were overwhelmingly from regular Mumsnet users. From our correspondence it’s clear that she simply can’t accept our guidelines - which is, of course, her prerogative but you must understand that at some point we need to draw the line. As Mumsnet CEO, I have to take the welfare of our mod team into account. I don’t imagine any of you would be particularly happy if your boss stood by and simply let people be rude to and about you (in direct opposition to your stated policies). So we’ve had to conclude, sadly, that Mumsnet isn’t the place for LangCleg.

Thoroughly enjoying Spinster. And will be name changing in LandClegs honour when I get the hang of this beastly update.

Wow. Really?
I’ve never seen Lang be rude or aggressive. No nonsense, sure, but rude, no. Aggressive? Absolutely not.

Can we get some explicit clarification as to what counts as rudeness in regards to the moderation team? Because I worry we’re all working off a different definition and as we all know, words really do matter.

persistently aggressive towards, and disparaging of, our moderation team

LangClag was never aggressive towards anyone, let alone MN mods. I’ve never seen her be disparaging of them either, quite the opposite. I hope she will be tempted to publish the correspondence between herself and MNHQ in response to this character assassination.

And 60 deletions. How many times did she post? Thousands at least. Possibly tens of thousands of posts. It is an exceedingly low percentage of her posts that broke the (ever changing, hard to navigate) rules.

Rude, aggressive? When? I don't believe you have any examples of this @MNHQ

Did you ever reinstate @OrchidintheSun by the way?

LangCleg has had over 60 posts deleted

How many posts did LangCleg contribute to discussions?
The context of deleted posts matters.

Justine@MNHQ has always been really good in the media about MN being different because of allowing free speech and robust debate. Banning LangCleg is way, way off brand.

It's a bad business decision. If MN are thinking that the next trend is back to the wholesome world of Boden and biscuits, they are mistaken. Women's rights are back on the agenda, and even people who are not bothered about the threat to women's rights are listening, because the threat to free speech affects everyone. MNHQ, you might not like the comments about coercive control, but Lang is an asset to this site and the whole debate that is finally happening. Please reinstate her membership.

So we’ve had to conclude, sadly, that Mumsnet isn’t the place for LangCleg.

Mumsnet isn't the place for a knowledgeable woman who stands up for women's freedom to speak about topics like safeguarding without being policed by men, because she is too rude about it. The feelings of the moderators are more important than the feelings of the content creators. Well, at least the priorities are clearly stated.

Perhaps not the place for many of us, then...

@JustineMumsnet I sympathize with the moderation team who I realize have a very difficult job and I do agree that in rare cases it is necessary to take action against someone who is deliberately aggressive towards the staff of an organization.

However, I find this really surprising and I would respectfully like to know more about what standards the team is using to define aggression and disparagement, if for no other reason than to ensure that others don't unwittingly fall foul.

I work in a customer service management role and I'm afraid that putting up with, and viewing with detachment, a certain amount of robustness (not outright abuse, but it's usually pretty obvious where the dividing line is) from customers is part of the job and a member of staff who cannot handle this is not suited for the role.

Perhaps its time for an FOI request?

There is zero evidence that these posts were targeted by Trans Rights Activists - reports were overwhelmingly from regular Mumsnet users

May 2019 LangCleg posted link & commented:
Trolling and Online Abuse - Is there a difference?

"This is such a good thread. Just to pull out some stuff from the last section:

As someone who has been raising awareness and better the understanding of #coercivecontrol, I have been struck by the many similarities shared by certain online abusers and coercive and controlling ex partners. This is especially true of those who partake of online #mobbing.

The reason is to more effectively turn the tables and direct the abuse away from the mobbing campaign and onto the target whilst giving the impression the target is belligerent and antagonises others. Even better if the mobbing campaign has successfully provoked a reaction.

It's really vital that we understand these dynamics and never take things at face value. And also that the language of the women's sector can often illuminate what is happening to women online - especially with regard to the so-called gender wars.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. Misogynists don't change much wherever they appear."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness?pg=1

60+ posts being aggressive towards the mod team?
Oh give over.

no idea what you are all talking about
It's at times like this I'm glad I have nothing to do with facebook, twitter, instagram and all the other rubbish that causes unhappiness, depression, low self esteem and mental problems.

Own goal.

Namechanged in support. I'm not a prolific poster, it's true but I find it chilling that she has been banned.
MNHQ seem to be listening to unpleasant males on Twitter (and their socks on her) instead of women.

I’ve never seen Lang be rude or aggressive. No nonsense, sure, but rude, no. Aggressive?

Perhaps that's because the posts where she did so were deleted?

I can't recall seeing it but I also can't recall seeing posts of hers deleted either.

I’m wondering if most of the Mods are young. There seems to be an idea these days that disagreement is somehow aggression. I have read this kind of complaint on the internet so many times.

IMHO LangCleg argued and discussed issues robustly, sometimes with sarcasm when pushed, but never aggressively. This has been a totally ridiculous and cowardly decision and I hope that it is overturned soon.

NotTheLangCleg

Although I am not as familiar with all her posts as some others are, I never saw anything I would say fitted your quotation.

Unfortunately, this whole situation has brought back a very dark time in my working history. While employed in a very large multinational company, I was accused of similar (but verbal) behaviour towards another member of staff. I was so incensed, I fought the temporary suspension and was eventually exonerated. Unfortunately it proved impossible for me to put the whole incident behind and I eventually left for a much better job.

The point I think I am trying to make is that now Lang has left us and joined Spinster, not only will she will find other formidable "rejects" from Twitter (who are sadly missed) but a much freer forum to express her overwhelmingly appreciated views. Sorry MN followers, but your loss is definitely Spinster's gain.

There is zero evidence that these posts were targeted by Trans Rights Activists - reports were overwhelmingly from regular Mumsnet users Having been on one of the threads that Lang was deleted on the poster who complained was quite a well recognised non GC personage... who has also been banned for not being what they seemed, if I remember correctly!

We all know that there are some long term user names that are TRAs and allies. JP was a few of them, according to JP! But there are many more.

FOI doesn't apply to Mumsnet