Lang Cleg 2

[TiredofthisBSbutIstandwithLang]

New thread as we got to 1000.

And the same could be said of men who think they are women because they 'feel like women' or because they like dressing in a feminine way or because they believe they think like women...

Portraying women's lives and experience as role play or a costume is pretty offensive to women.

But this completely ignored transmen, assumes that gender dysphoria doesn't exist rather it's an elaborate game of dress up and isn't treating trans gender people as individuals. I do find that offensive.

What hearhooves just said.

But this completely ignored transmen, assumes that gender dysphoria doesn't exist rather it's an elaborate game of dress up and isn't treating trans gender people as individuals. I do find that offensive.
Take it up with Stonewall.

Willis
You can block the people who are disagreeable.

A handy thing for good mental health imo.

The amount of offense taken on this thread about things that have not been said is staggering.

Sorry to harp on about it but the attached post from LC (which is still up) is clearly vilifying trans people is it not?

Sapphis no it it not. The thread has been linked for context. It’s sticking 2 fingers up at activists, it’s not ‘vilifying trans people’. If you can’t read context you can’t understand debate.

It’s the constant defence of this position - ‘you’re horrible aggressive women who clearly HATE all trans people’ - that is so stifling.

That quoted post would barely raise an eyebrow on AIBU.

Cohle - you absolutely denied posting exact wording that I posted above

Cwenthryth that's a ridiculous allegation.

I said "It also of course implies that moderators are too foolish or stupid to realise that they are being manipulated” in response to you asking me to “walk you through” why I thought the statement “[the MN mods] are unwittingly being used to abuse and harass women posting in good faith on this forum” could possibly be “rude or hurtful” to the mods.

The only think I have denied is your total mischaracterisation of that statement as having meant “victims of coercive control are all foolish and stupid”.

I absolutely don’t think “all victims of coercive control are stupid”, which why I didn’t say anything of the kind. The supposed manipulation of mumsnet employees is very, very different from the situation of victims of domestic abuse. You are extrapolating from the very specific to the general in a way that is entirely groundless.

I'm not denying anything I've said, just the bizzare way you have interpreted it to apply to situations entirely beyond what I was referring to.

ALittleBitofVitriol

R0 already found this. It was clearly a “fuck you” to those who want to suppress the definition of woman but would have a hard time suppressing it when it was projected onto the side of a building.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3392696--adulthumanfemale-in-London?pg=2

But someone telling people wanting to suppress the definition of woman to fuck off over a year ago is clearly evidence that Lang vilified trans people.

Given that plenty of people who aren’t trans want to suppress this definition, I think it’s clear Lang was non-discriminatory with her fuck yous .

If I could put this whole thread on the homepage, I would.

Is that another one of those things that only magical you can see and we are all blind to?

Nope. Plenty of us have seen it and been on the receiving end of it.

I don't want women to be told to be nicer.
I want Lang Cleg back.

Feel free to take whatever offense you like hooves, but that's not the same as a convincing argument in a debate. See also, whataboutism.

Not all transpeople are people with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

Given my child's psychiatrist describes that diagnosis as 'low-hanging fruit' ie not difficult at all to get, I am quite content in my personal decision to consider only people with diagnosed gender dysphoria as actually trans, and actually vulnerable.

Personally, I see most GD as a form of internalized homophobia, and rather than chiding feminists on a feminist board, think trans allies best energies could be going towards challenging homophobia in society.

*actually vulnerable to discrimination on the basis of their mental health diagnosis.

Thanks Ro! 💜

assumes that gender Dysphoria doesn’t exist

Nobody says gender Dysphoria doesn’t exist. It just doesn’t mean the same as “born in the wrong body”. Nor is it the only reason men ID as women. Ask Grayson Perry if you want a man to corroborate this.

Take it up with Stonewall.

Why? Don't they recognise the existence of transmen either?

NotBadConsidering I haven't a clue but I am sure it wasn't a decision MNHQ took lightly. I am sure they would have wanted to avoid all this if they could.

But Sapphos you put the “three strikes” rule together with Lang’s 60 deletions in your post. Presumably you must think they’re linked. Do you think that it’s posdible that Lang’s deletions extend back over a long period of time and for reasons that may not be trans related or moderator related?

? Don't they recognise the existence of transmen either?

I noticed that, and also that it's been conveniently skipped by a poster replying to your comment with the other part but not that!

Nobody says gender Dysphoria doesn’t exist. It just doesn’t mean the same as “born in the wrong body”. Nor is it the only reason men ID as women. Ask Grayson Perry if you want a man to corroborate this.

Read the post my reply relates to.

It doesn't differentiate does it? It assumes that all trans gender people are men dressing up - that is offensive

Also thanks NotBad! 💐

Trans and c*s people should live and identify exactly as they want. No one should vilify them, or anyone.

I don’t personally believe TWAW, no one I know does. But why does that offend trans / c*s people? I don’t get it. Catholics are not offended by atheists not going to church... why should they pretend to believe something they don’t? each to their own.

Indeed Thelnebriati, tiresome.

Thread #3 soon?!

Can you codify belief into law? Will you mandate that people can transition from one sex to the other and must be treated accordingly? That children who fail to conform to sex role stereotypes are to be taught they were born in the wrong body & will be treated with drugs and surgery? How will you punish the non believers? Ther heretics.