Trans women in womens toilet

[BeCoolYolanda]

I was out with friends tonight for a friends birthday. While in the queue for the toilet in the womens bathroom a transwomen came in. She was chatting to people in the queue and the lady in front of me asked if she were a man or a woman as she wasnt comfortable with a male being in the female toilets.

With that all hell all hell broke loose, the transwomen became very aggressive shouting and pointing in the womens face. A lot of women in the queue also turned on the woman, saying how dare she ask that etc. The woman ended up locking herself in the toilet as she felt intimidated.

Eventually the bouncers were called and they came in to the toilet and dragged the woman who asked the question out forcefully by the arm. Should this be happening? All a women did was question if it was a male or female that was using a female space, maybe she could have worded it less bluntly but surely the sentiment is still the same.

[AutumnRose1]

Luisa of course it's your perspective, no worries.

I would say to the OP that it underlines the importance of contacting your local MP because it's easy to get in a situation where a majority is silent and then gets ignored.

[Michelleoftheresistance]

Well it obviously wasn't a problem for the other women.

Good. That's really nice for those other women. But what should the females for whom it is a problem do?

[Kit19]

In the past I would have seen it like that & been ‘meh so they want to wee in the ladies so what?’

I doubt any of the women in that queue would say ‘oh yes being ok with them peeing in the ladies means I also think they should be allowed in women refuges, rape centres, to be included on all women shortlists, given awards meant for women, and that there should be no female only spaces at all’

2 years ago I was totally on board with twaw because I thought it meant men who have severe dysphoria & gone through long painful mental assessments and physical treatments should be given the courtesy of being treated as an actual woman because it’s no skin off my nose and of course we both know they’re not actual women

I didn’t realise that that meant I was supposed to agree that there should be no female only spaces anywhere and that confused teenage boys would be able to grow their hair long, wear make up & announce they were a woman and I was expected to accept they Suddenly had exactly the same life experience as me of being a woman

I was kind because I’m a woman, I was socialised today be kind but our kindness was not reciprocated. It was interpreted as weakness and an opportunity to colonise every single one of our spaces

So I’m done with being accommodating

[AutumnRose1]

Kit I do wonder how many people understand that it's all about self ID now and not the process you described.

[Dolorabelle]

that would have involved the tw genuinely acting like a woman: asking for accommodation, not demanding it; and empathising, not dominating

Yup.

And actually in law, unless the transwoman had a GRC or was officially going through official transition ie NOT self-ID - then they were in the wrong lavatory

[thenightsky]

I wonder how many of the women who kept quiet were actually afraid of the potential for (male) violence from the transwoman. I've been in a similar queue (M&S lingerie changing room queue). I kept my mouth shut and stared at the floor. Didn't want to tempt fate and get walloped.

[TheHagOnTheHill]

If the transwomen was chatting to friends(woke allies)then asking that question would be risky .
The transwomen should be aware that she may be questioned and a simple, I'm a transwomen,I just need a pee and can't use the men's but if this is a problem I'll go,response there would have been no issue.Its the aggressive behaviour that is the problem and that the questioner was forcibly removed compounds that and forces most women into the ossition of wanting no men in our spaces whereas until this self I'd most transexuals were quietly accepted and allowed to go about there business.

[Michelleoftheresistance]

I think there's rules against troll hunting.

[madcatladyforever]

Quite honestly I pick my battles. I would not straight away be demanding the transwoman states whetehr they are a man or a woman because that's a sure way for all hell to be let loose.
I believe some transpeople are the genuine article and if they just want to quietly go to the loo and you don't feel threatened then fine.
However any bizarre or obviously fetish like behaviour I'd be protesting.
In my experience and I have a lot of it in my job - better not say what - trans women do not lose their male aggression when challenged and will often try to intimidate you, lash out or show angry and aggressive behaviour.
Sometimes it just isn't safe to approach them without back up.

[Michelleoftheresistance]

I'm a transwomen,I just need a pee and can't use the men's but if this is a problem I'll go,

But this can't be the solution for every situation. It shouldn't be up to whoever is in the loo at the time to negotiate amongst themselves, who is fine with mixed sex provision, who has circumstances that makes mixed sex provision impossible for them to access, and who gives way to whom. The disclosure on all sides not to mention the negotiations and possible solutions of where the displaced person goes - TW or the distressed female - aren't answered either.

There have to be some spaces for females who cannot use mixed sex provisions.

[Justhadathought]

In this context, the objectivity of your (not you specifically) beliefs is nearly meaningless if they are fundamentally at odds with the beliefs of the person you're trying to garner support from

Biological sex is not a belief, though, it is a reality. A material reality.

[Justhadathought]

I expect I'll get slated for saying this but I think my reaction would probably have been to mentally judge the trans woman's appearance (I judge every one's appearance, I'm very shallow) but if she wasn't doing anything else I doubt very much I'd care

You see, I would.....

In the first instance I would not have made a huge scene out of it, but I would have said, fairly discreetly, " This is the ladies......."

[Justhadathought]

Well it obviously wasn't a problem for the other women

Just because many people won't vocalise, or speak out in public ( on any number of different sorts of occasion), doesn't mean they are o.k with something; or comfortable with it. It often takes a brave soul to speak out........and it is often the brave souls who instigate change......because most people accept what they' re given.

[Justhadathought]

I would weigh up if the person in question was an androphilic trans person or an AGP gynephilic trans person, and I would, obviously, be more wary of the latter...

Absolutely! No-one wants to be forced into being a participant in someone's fetish.

[Tubbytwo]

How exactly does one weigh up whether the transwoman standing next to one in a queue for the ladies loo is an ‘androphiliac transperson’ or has AGP? If you could explain I’m sure most women would be very pleased. Thanks 😊

[Gronky]

Tubbytwo, I'd love to see this question answered too.

[allmywhat]

You might I suppose put the case that the other women were too terrified by the presence of the trans woman to speak out- personally I don't think that was the case.

Well how lovely for you that you think this, but this is what we know:

• at least two women had an issue with it
• one of those two women was afraid to speak out
• the woman who did speak out experienced legitimately frightening consequences

so by what kind of ostrich-brained convenience-based reasoning substitute for logic are you assuming that all the other women who didn't speak out were not afraid? fucks sake.

[Tubbytwo]

Just come back home and eagerly checked to see if anyone had posted instructions for me on how to differentiate between AGP transwomen and the other sort (whatever they are?) but nothing yet 🙁 I’ll keep checking. It would be immensely useful information to possess since it would bring about an end all sexual assaults/rapes. Please don’t keep this information to yourselves, those of you who have it.

[lydiamajora]

Tubbytwo: Easy! You look into their souls and determine if it's a real laydee soul or not.

[Tubbytwo]

Aha! Is there a training course available because I don’t seem to possess this skill 😂