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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julie Bindel bullying Posie

409 replies

LiterallyProblematic · 17/01/2020 08:16

FFS! Why did a she have to do this? It’s so divisive and gratuitously mean!
twitter.com/bindelj/status/1217986645871546368?s=20

OP posts:
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GrinitchSpinach · 17/01/2020 12:49

Tirisfal, sorry I typed in haste; I was agreeing with you! Just wanted to clarify McBride’s role for accuracy.

I am not really interested in Team Anyone either. Each woman has done and continues to do important, complementary work. My main objection is to the TIMING of this rant. Just like last year, when American women organize and try to get heard in the press—this one literally on the eve of WoLF’s event—the story has become all about Posie and her merits or flaws, drowning out the actual news of the New York Public Library canceling the “Cancelled Women” and anything the rest of the speakers might be addressing. Tiresome.

BovaryX · 17/01/2020 12:49

Dr Louise Moody
It is lovely to see you on this thread! How are you doing? Hope you are doing well

Cookieflavoredbiscuit · 17/01/2020 12:55

Eyes on the prize wims; eyes on the prize.

This kinds of kerfluffle makes me so glad I'm not anywhere near any limelight- I guess there's few of us who haven't done or said something worse than Julie's comment and gotten away with it because the only ones who noticed were those close to us, and know us well enough to forgive us (or not).

Julie's comment about Posie not being a feminist goes right to why Posie stopped calling herself that. Actions speak louder than labels anyway. But I think Posie is more of a.... why don't we have a word for this.... person who is concerned with protecting children....there really should be a word for that.... Anyway, to me she seems to be more focused on protecting kids than women, and for that I say all the more fucking power to her.

And so glad we have Julie, too, she's been so brilliant and tireless for so long. And entitled to her opinion.

DrLouiseJMoody · 17/01/2020 13:01

Hi Bovary!

Me? Just trying not to go insane with all this in-fighting (don't want to derail the thread too much). I just hope Posie's event goes well without it being overshadowed by this insanity.

RoyalCorgi · 17/01/2020 13:07

Social media is so exasperating. Julie is free to think that Posie is a liability or that she's right wing or that she's stupid or whatever it is. Just don't say it publicly, ffs. What possible good can it do?

I have my disagreements with Posie, but I still think those Woman = adult human female posters were a stroke of genius.

BovaryX · 17/01/2020 13:09

Dr. Louise Moody,
I agree it would be unfortunate if this overshadowed the NY event, but hopefully it will blow over.... great to see you here.

LangCleg · 17/01/2020 13:12

That quillette article was really interesting. The description of the post-left struck me particularly though, I can't decide if I think it's wrong or not. It seemed almost the farthest from leftism of the three descriptions.

Goose - whether one likes it or not, I think we are seeing a reorganisation of political thought here in the UK and post liberalism is a part of it. The old alliances are falling apart and there is a vacuum where new ones are yet to form. I don't see the Woke as genuinely left wing at all, for instance. If it's not based on materialism, it's not leftist. But if none of the self-identified leftist political parties have materialist policy platforms, where am I to go? I'm not a right winger. We'll see where this all goes - I've no idea where. But it's wise to pay attention because it's the fastest growing political allegiance in the UK, so far as I can see. Boris, detest him though I do, appears to have sussed this, while Labour remains oblivious. By observation, I'd put Posie in the centrist post liberal section of that article.

LangCleg · 17/01/2020 13:13

Hey Louise! How you diddlin'?

AnyFucker · 17/01/2020 13:27

Women who think they're men should besterilised’

This comment has been attributed to Posie and everytime taken massively out of context.

Personally, I view it through the lens of "if men want to be women why do they hang on to their cock and balls" ie. the actual biology that distinguishes them from women

So why don't transmen get rid of the thing that defines them biologically ?

Posie is an equal rights trans denier. I agree with her on this.

Aesopfable · 17/01/2020 13:29

I do think it funny how people condemn women as working with the conservatives or republicans. It is almost as if they hadn't realised that they are the ones in power at the moment.

Goosefoot · 17/01/2020 13:43

LangCleg

Yes, I would put her in the middle as well. And I agree that we are in a period of realignment. And all of them seem to be about recognising freedom as a good in itself being a limited idea, and that atomic individualism is probably simply not true in the way liberalism has said, or behaved as if it believes. Relationalism hasn't been adequately understood within liberal approaches.

I'm not sure I'd associate materialism particularly with the left or right, I suspect you have versions all along the spectrum, as well as idealists of various sorts.

Having thought about it though, I think maybe what seemed odd to me is because the author is thinking in American terms. So he has the "right" as very state oriented and authoritarian, while he sees the "left" as very individualistic and almost libertarian. Whereas I tend to associate that view almost with a sort of centrism in terms of left and right, while I see the far left as based on class analysis, and the traditional rights also as interested in relational groupings.

HarrietThePi · 17/01/2020 13:45

I can never follow these kinds of arguments and it is a large part of why I stopped interacting in certain online (and offline) circles and stick to mumsnet. I like to know what's going on, and to be able to discuss and debate it. Mumsnet is perfect for that. I don't think I am socially blessed enough to really understand the fights.

DuMondeB · 17/01/2020 13:57

That trip was the biggest own-goal ever. No decent person would have looked at the video of them abusing Sarah McBride

Robust questioning re: support of girls having elective double mastectomies isn’t ‘abuse’.

You say tomato, I say society seems to give absolutely no fucks for the long term wellbeing of young women caught up in this gender-bollox, including my own socially awkward, puberty-distressed, stepdaughter.

BovaryX · 17/01/2020 13:59

So he has the "right" as very state oriented and authoritarian, while he sees the "left" as very individualistic and almost libertarian

I think that's problematic. I don't think it's an accurate assessment of the political landscape in the US. There is a libertarian wing of the Republican party which rarely gets mentioned. Also, the threat to freedom of speech in universities is emanating from the left wing in many US universities. The antifa no platforming theme isn't really discussed.

SapphosRock · 17/01/2020 14:08

AnyFucker

So the following is excusable:

'Women who think they're men should be sterilised'

But calling the person who Tweeted it a 'thick feck' is bullying?

I don't think either Posie or Julie come across great tbh but one is definitely more vile than the other.

Goosefoot · 17/01/2020 14:11

I think that's problematic.

Yes, it is, but I would say that it's not unusual for American commentators to talk about left vs right in ways that don't make sense to me, and also which don't seem to get to the heart of what differentiates them.

Barracker · 17/01/2020 14:11

Like everyone else, I think some people are unbearable wankers at times, and sometimes have absolutely no hesitation throwing others under the bus.

There are women doing tremendous good in this movement who also, occasionally and deliberately, do actual harm to it in service to their own egos, and to women within it too.

I try to judge people by their own words, not by what others say about them, and not by who they were seen talking to, and not by what 'everybody knows' about them. I've no truck with anyone who talks about so and so 'aligning with' or 'shared a platform with' or 'allied with'. I tend to view people who talk this way as self centered witch-hunters, do it to Julia types. I believe that they actually know there exists no actual quid pro quo alliance, only a general mutual agreement that the sky is blue amongst people who otherwise disagree on most other issues. They also conveniently ignore their own actual alliances with others who are actively tearing apart women's rights, which genuine alliances somehow are not considered odious.

Bah. Both the left and the right have chosen their own pet ways to diminish women's rights.

There are 3.8 billion of us. I want all of us recognised by our sex. Even the ones who I don't much like. I try, mostly, to reserve my moaning about specific, named individuals' actions to private conversations with trusted mates, where my indulgent emotional incontinence does the least harm.

Bindelj · 17/01/2020 14:35

Hi everyone, someone told me there was some criticism on here about my post last night re PP. Fair enough. I can hardly talk about Parker having not looked up Mona Eltahawy's second name or book title or work, et cetera, when I then go and spell it wrong. I was a total dickhead. I should never have called Parker 'thick', that was totally wrong of me. I stand by my views of her and her tactics, best I was wrong to say what I said. As you were.

Bindelj · 17/01/2020 14:36

BUT I was wrong to say...

My typos are legendary

AnyFucker · 17/01/2020 14:37

@SapphosRock I didn't say anything about Julie's twitter pronouncement. I don't think she should have done it but I am not going to "pick a side" like a teenage mean girl

What I do take issue with is wilful misunderstanding

Coyoacan · 17/01/2020 14:37

SapphosRock I'm glad to see you are on team Julie. I hope to see you fighting against prostitution now.

IMHO, both Julie and Posie are brilliant and have made very positive contributions to the cause of women.

I still think Posie should have been given the Turner Prize for her billboard campaign.

AnyFucker · 17/01/2020 14:38

Hello Julie. Fair play.

SapphosRock · 17/01/2020 14:46

Hi Julie 👋

Nice to see you on here and I'm sure we can all relate to making inadvisable Tweets at some point. I imagine it's hard to keep your cool when it comes to PP.

Coyo I am very much fighting for the men who use prostitutes to receive tougher punishments.

Aesopfable · 17/01/2020 14:58

It is worth remembering we praise these women because they are not cautious, because they don’t keep their heads down, because when they see something they think is wrong they speak up. We can’t expect to get a smooth ride from them and thank goodness for that!

traceyracer · 17/01/2020 15:10

What did the tweet say? It's been deleted now?