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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

British woman found guilty of making up rape claims

308 replies

RoyalCorgi · 30/12/2019 10:12

The war on women continues:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/30/briton-found-guilty-over-ayia-napa-false-claim-cyprus

The poor, poor woman. Facing a year in jail for being gang-raped.

OP posts:
bd67th · 01/01/2020 18:06

If a woman really wants sex with a man, and is clearly enjoying it. If half way through she says "this hurts can we stop" and he continues, that is still obviously rape.

A third of men don't think so and a third of women don't either, which is why I'm now celibate and wishing I could stop fancying men.

This idea that consent is irrevocable is a huge problem. People treat having sex like buying a house, with no backsies allowed after you've signed the contract. Sexual consent is actually not a contract and can be revoked at any time during the sex, for any reason, by any party.

angell84 · 01/01/2020 18:19

@bd67th but what can women do? Women are smaller than men. What power fo we have?

Do you think if we start to have sex with a man, and say stop mid way through - he would stop? I am thinking of the men that I have been with in the past. The men I have said "no i don't want to do something, while we are having sex".

Not one of them cared that I didn't want to do it. Not one. Every single one made me do wht they wanted.

I feel like alot of men have the inherent idea that they are worth more than women, and they simply do not care what the woman wants.

Five examples of this happening to me.

I had sex with one guy who asked me again and again and again to have sex without a condom. I said no. He would not take no for an answer. He asked me again and again and again. He did not care in the slighest what I wanted.

I was having sex with a guy and he asked me to do something. I said no. He began to physically push my body into the position that he wanted anyway. I said "i said no! You have to respect that!"

He said "but you are saying no to ME!"

I said no again. He said "because you are unwilling - get out of my flat". He was really angry at me saying no. And he made me leave in the middle of the night.

I was in a room with another guy. We had met on holiday, and I simply wanted to have a drink with him in his hotel room. I did not want to do anything sexual. He kept asking me. I kept saying no. He pushed me into having sex.

Another guy wanted to do something and I said no -- and he said "how dare you disrespect me". He was awful.

One boyfriend - at certain times , I would say "I don't want sex" and he would push and push me into having sex. He would not take no for an answer.

At this current time period in history - men are very cruel to women. And governments allow them to get away with it.

angell84 · 01/01/2020 18:23

I still remember that German guy standing over me.

Me saying to him "I said no!"

And him looking down at me and saying "but you are saying no to ME!"

If I can try to get it across - he conveyed in every word of his statement , that as a woman I was worth so much less than him, a man, how could I say no to what he wanted

finnmcool · 01/01/2020 19:30

There's a march for justice on Sunday 6th January.
It starts at 12pm outside the Cypriot embassy.
The information is on The Gemini Project Facebook and twitter.

RhinoskinhaveI · 01/01/2020 20:08

ah yes, the boundary pushers who think that 'no' is the start of a negotiation :(
I'm sorry that you've had to endure these attacks Angel :(
I dont know what the answer is except keep facing them down and standing together with other women

bd67th · 01/01/2020 20:09

angell84 Flowers and I too have feared to say no to a man in case he confirmed my suspicion that he might be a rapist.

In the 1970s some feminists advocated female separatism: that we basically stop fucking men, have as little to do with them as possible, and adopt celibacy or lesbianism. I think that those women had a point.

bd67th · 01/01/2020 20:19

And before anyone says NAMALT: every a woman takes a man as a sexual partner, she's playing russian roulette with her safety. We have an absolute right to refuse to do that any more.

PanicAndRun · 01/01/2020 20:22

That's why I think describing these men as monsters or animals is damaging. Or talking about nature,instincts,testosterone etc. It makes it sounds like they have no control,no limits. Like there is no other choice than rape ,push,force themselves.

I know they can ...if they want to. If they consider your wants and wishes. If they don't see women and their bodies as possessions. If they don't see sex as their God given right. If they don't see their urges as primal,necessary and to be fulfilled at all costs. Because they can't help themselves.

Antibles · 01/01/2020 20:29

This makes me so sick and angry.

The Sarah Vine commentary was very good.

LucileDuplessis · 01/01/2020 21:11

I've just donated to the crowd funder.

ArranUpsideDown · 01/01/2020 21:26

Can anybody tell me why Jonathan King's opinions are being given any publicity at all?

Why isn't he being granted complete obscurity?

dartboardio22 · 02/01/2020 00:40

They've kept this quiet.

The israeli men, were overheard saying they were all going to have an orgy with her :( a witness made a statement stating this...

They all wanted to have sex with her, they were heard confirming this.. the night she was raped

news.sky. com/story/israelis-planned-orgies-with-british-teen-accused-of-making-cyprus-false-rape-claim-11825401

theflushedzebra · 02/01/2020 03:57

Yes, dartboard - the evidence suggests it was a premeditated gang rape. They should have all got 5-10yrs behind bars - but instead they're quaffing champagne and calling her a whore.

ferrier · 02/01/2020 08:21

Not pertaining particularly to this case where I believe the men are guilty but. ...
For a criminal case there is a burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt, not believability - in the UK. Not sure what the onus is in Cyprus.
Yes it's possible for a woman to consent to sex with 12 men. I have a friend who does this kind of thing very happily. Couldn't tell you the exact number but I can't imagine 12 would bother her. Just because you personally find something unbelievable, doesn't mean to say it's not true.

alreadytaken · 02/01/2020 09:09

I have ignored the rape apologists, donated to the fundraiser and cancelled plans to head to Cyprus for some winter sun. I shall be putting the #BoycottCyprus message out too.

Googled mumsnet cyprus rape and knew that would show me what I could do to protest about the treatment of this young woman.

Googling fundraiser cyprus rape will find it for those who choose to support financially.

Tarahumara · 02/01/2020 11:09

This case is shocking - I've donated to the crowdfunder.

AriadneAufNaxos · 02/01/2020 11:22

For a criminal case there is a burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt, not believability - in the UK. Not sure what the onus is in Cyprus
Yes it's possible for a woman to consent to sex with 12 men. I have a friend who does this kind of thing very happily. Couldn't tell you the exact number but I can't imagine 12 would bother her. Just because you personally find something unbelievable, doesn't mean to say it's not true

The fact your friend might consent to this has no bearing on the level of proof needed to prove the case beyond all reasonable doubt in a particular case.

wordsmithsforever · 02/01/2020 11:49

Won't be going to Cypress - ever. I believe her. Those disgusting men should be in prison not her. So angry about this case. As women, we should hit the Cypriot government (and other similar ones that openly trash women's rights) where it hurts - its tourism.

bd67th · 02/01/2020 12:09

Yes it's possible for a woman to consent to sex with 12 men. I have a friend who does this kind of thing very happily.

I bet your friend does this in carefully-planned, safeguarded environments such as swingers' clubs. Not in the middle of sex with a holiday fling when his mates come barging in without warning.

AriadneAufNaxos · 02/01/2020 12:34

Yes it's possible for a woman to consent to sex with 12 men. I have a friend who does this kind of thing very happily

The fact your friend might do this has no bearing on the fact that it is entirely beyond credibility that I, for example, would do this. The court looks at the person in front of them- not your hypothetical friend.

YappityYapYap · 02/01/2020 12:43

If she consented to sex with 12 men, the last thing she would do is make a complaint to the police for it to be common knowledge! Surely she would want it kept quiet? Logically, she made that complaint because she didn't consent at all and through the process, she knew the police were not on her side and wanted to put an end to it and go home so withdrew it. Now it's all 'she made it all up'. She didn't. She did what that poor girl from America did (unbelievable on Netflix) except this case is even worse as they've thrown her in jail!

HarrietThePi · 02/01/2020 13:09

I have been raped before. Didn't report. But one of the scariests moment of my life was during a consensual one night stand and the next morning his friends, about 8 of them back from a stag do, burst into the room we were in and stared at me on the bed naked under the sheets. I shook with fear, the man I was with noticed and told them to leave and they did. So nothing happened. But I have often thought back to that moment and just how defenceless and vulnerable I was.

That poor girl, I believe her without a trace of doubt.

I know that consensual acts like this do take place, but as a pp said: Not in the middle of sex with a holiday fling when his mates come barging in without warning.

Fraggling · 02/01/2020 13:20

Yappityyappityyap

Your account is a bit off the mark.
The doctor who treated her injuries made the report.
The 'retraction', was blatantly not written by her. It's not in language that a native English speaker would use. It's clear someone else wrote it. She says she was coerced into signing it.

pallisers · 02/01/2020 14:59

Yes it's possible for a woman to consent to sex with 12 men. I have a friend who does this kind of thing very happily. Couldn't tell you the exact number but I can't imagine 12 would bother her. Just because you personally find something unbelievable, doesn't mean to say it's not true

She regularly finds 12 men on a night out to shag in one go does she? She must spend her nights out like someone herding sheep. Does she make them hold hands while she makes up the dozen so she doesn't lose one? After it happens does she go to a doctor for her injuries?

Didn't think so. You either have a friend who regularly goes to a sex club for sex with many men in a controlled safe consensual environment or you have a friend who is partial to the odd threesome or foursome. Absolutely no relevance to the idea that a woman goes into a hotel bedroom with one man and is perfectly happy to have sex with 11 of his friends who later join them. You might as well say Lots of women want to have sex with Israeli men so it is possible that this woman consented to sex with 12 israeli men.

hiphiphoorayback · 02/01/2020 16:00

Glad I have never been to Cyprus and I never will go. Poor girl. I believe you and I hope you get the compensation you deserve for your treatment in Cyprus.

The world seems to be going backwards with regards to rape cases. Who would willingly report a rape atm. So sad.

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