British woman found guilty of making up rape claims

[RoyalCorgi]

The war on women continues:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/30/briton-found-guilty-over-ayia-napa-false-claim-cyprus

The poor, poor woman. Facing a year in jail for being gang-raped.

Is it believable that she has been convicted of making the whole thing up?

Or does that not require the same standard of proof?

I would suggest a universal truth that someone who believes that a woman who can consent to sex with 12 men is not in possession of a vagina.

It really is not that unknown for people to make "unthinkable" decisions, and if you can't imagine that kind of scenario that's really about you.

Say that someone stops you in an alleyway and mugs you. You tell the the police. It's highly unlikely that you would take out your wallet and give a random stranger in an alleyway all your money, so you would expect a conviction. By your logic, we should acquit because you giving a stranger all your money isn't outright unthinkable: the stranger might be a beggar and you might feel generous.

It's amazing how the rules are always different when it comes to rape.

It's more likely that a woman would consent to sex with 12 men most of whom are strangers

Than 12 men would plan to gang rape a woman one of them is seeing.

One must disbelieve the woman because women like this sort of thing.
One must believe the men as men rarely lie about rape, or indeed commit it.

On the internet, the same rules apply as in a courtroom. Women who think she was likely to have been raped must keep their opinions to themselves. Men who think she's a liar are welcome to comment freely.

Obviously.

Like the judge who said he wouldn't hear any evidence she was raped as it's not a rape trial. All sensible and above board.

You can't consent to being harmed either, or at least it's not a defence. Unless you're a woman. Then suddenly the law not only disappears, but "she asked for it" becomes a full defence covering anything from rape to murder.

PanicAndRun - yes - absolutely - this is something that needs to be urgently addressed in UK law too. "Consent" should never be a defence when it comes to actual bodily harm.

By your logic, we should acquit because you giving a stranger all your money isn't outright unthinkable

You can't consent to being harmed either, or at least it's not a defence. Unless you're a woman. Then suddenly the law not only disappears, but "she asked for it" becomes a full defence covering anything from rape to murder.

"Consent" should never be a defence when it comes to actual bodily harm.

I refer you to my earlier comment: "Women who enjoy pain would be much safer if they knew that the police and courts would assume that being hit wasn't ever consensual, because a woman could call the police on any dom who overstepped her boundaries and he would know that."

To the PP who said they couldn't believe that I was talking about kink on a rape thread, there is a reason for me doing so: kink is used to acquit rapists.

I know that's the really upsetting thing, as with the ched e case, the women didn't even report rape. And now this one is in prison for it, the woman in the ched e case had her life torn apart as well (not sure how many new IDs she had to be given, moved away from all friends family, death and rape threats constantly etc)

Yes. I have long since thought (and the Stanford case in the US and the Belfast rape trial absolutely confirmed it for me) that if my daughters were raped I would not encourage them to report it. I'd give it a go myself on the basis I am old and boring (although the Brett Kavanaugh hearings made me think twice about that too - another woman under cover for telling her story about an assault - even middle age respectability doesn't really protect you) Now I have to think they can't even seek medical attention without being at risk of imprisonment themselves. Awful.

Now I have to think they can't even seek medical attention without being at risk of imprisonment themselves.

Again I ask: who benefits from this? Rapist men do. Women suffer.

I think we all know who benefits and why the system is set up like this. We always knew. Which is why feminism was needed. Now more than ever.

And yet there are women arguing that it would be harmful to women to presume a young woman doesn't want to have sex with 12 men on an average night out. The mind boggles.

Sarah Vine has commented on this.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7841551/SARAH-VINE-Gang-sex-terrifying-culture-abuse-corroded-minds-young-men.html

The Mum of the victim has been interviewed for BBC it sounds like this poor lass is in a living hell.
The evil that men do.
good that the legal fund is climbing.
www.gofundme.com/f/Help-Teen-Victim-Get-Justice-In-Cyprus?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=copy_link-tip&utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet

Signed and donated.

Rapists can rape with impunity everywhere it seems.

this is madness -
UK MUST STAND UP AGAINST THIS ...
The Government will intervene .. and society must back them up.
This woman has been treated so badly, shows how inept the EU is.
As a society we can show Cyprus what we feel... end tourism and they are crippled .... they do not deserve UK visitors....

These sick men should be punished -

Rapists should be castrated - world is too soft with these creeps

It would appear from an article in the Times today that the men are well connected back in Cyprus.

Which will surprise no one.

She was found guilty on the basis of a now retracted confession written in pidgin English. Chances of a successful appeal are high on a number of grounds.

The alleged attackers will be protected by their govt. and will never be sent back for trial. Our govt. will continue to call Israel a 'friend' in the hope it will buy a few more bombs.

An 18 year old woman, or any woman, who wants to have sex with one man, clearly does not agree to have sex with any of his mates, by saying yes to that one man.

The idea that she would credibly say yes to 11 of his mates at the same time is just ludicrous, something from a particularly vile porn film.

Pallisers hit the nail on the head.

We all know that a woman consenting to have sex with 12 men at the same time is highly unlikely - this without the physical evidence of bruising etc. Why do we have to pretend that in case some deeply vulnerable woman has ostensibly given "consent" to just this then we must presume that the average woman is up for it? Why are we contorting our common sense to try to pretend that porn is actually real life.

Amazing the presumption that all sex is consensual - even porn-fueled extreme shit.

So effectively legal justice for women has been sacrificed, because to secure this justice, we would need to spoil people’s enjoyment of porn and challenge their misogyny.

If we said categorically ‘no woman ever wants [sex with 12 men] ...except maybe a vanishingly rare someone who is very mentally vulnerable or unwell who might say she does (or even if we said that this straw woman probably doesn’t exist) .... then it follows that having consensual sex with 12 men isnt a thing that would ever happen in real life with any woman, because women’s bodies and our human psychology are not built to have sex like that without seriously awful consequences for the woman.

.. but for us to even say that or to acknowledge that reality in court as part of a legal argument, would ruin a porn fantasy for some people. It would make them have to take a long look at themselves and at what they are watching for entertainment and fundamentally reconsider how they think about women.

So instead of doing that challenging work, and in fact in order to bolster up the misogyny, we see legal arguments that seriously try to present that a 18 year old woman would happily have sex with 12 men.

Thats way beyond implausible and it is totally fucked up that anyone would think that it is likely. As a society we’ve been socially groomed by porn and women are massively vulnerable because of it.

Some great comments on this thread - and Sarah Vine nails some of the issues behind this:
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7841551/SARAH-VINE-Gang-sex-terrifying-culture-abuse-corroded-minds-young-men.html
Unfortunately I don't think that she realises that it is her husband's government who have given the green light to pornographers and enabled them to directly access schools, institutions like the NSPCC, Girl Guides etc. Because when you tell children that they have no right to boundaries and that women / girl's boundaries are irrelevant if men want access to them when vulnerable, then of course some boys will believe that girls are there for the taking. And when you enable a 'no shame ' culture where fetishists and pornographers are allowed to share their kinks directly with children (as we saw in the Warwickshire County Council porn and fetish for children scandal), then children's beliefs about what is acceptable are perpetually eroded.
It is good that this young woman is getting so much support now - but how we challenge the beliefs of young men that led to this awful situation I have no idea.

Add to that the Govt's proposals for age verification to block under-18s from accessing porn sites is run by ......Pornhub, the global portal that pushes the stuff.

To the young woman going through this ordeal, I believe you and support you as do so many thousands of people.

(and if anyone reading this has a connection to the family, please feel free to pass along the support on this thread if it might help)

I’ll donate to the crowd fund and pray for a safe return home soon.

Surely a woman consenting to sex that she doesn't really understand is still rape?

For someone to consent to this we have to assume that a woman not only consented to having sex with 12 men. That she also continued to consent throughout. Let's say she 'didnt fully understand what she was getting into" when she actually realises what having sex with 12 men is like, she still continues to consent.

Even when she gets to man 12 she is still consenting.

Even when it's causing her injuries severe enough to see a Dr, she is still consenting.

Can you imagine any woman consenting to this? Can you imagine any woman providing enthusiastic consent throughout sex with 12 men? Consent isn't just a yes at the start, it's continued throughout.

If a woman really wants sex with a man, and is clearly enjoying it. If half way through she says "this hurts can we stop" and he continues, that is still obviously. Even though she was keen at the outset

We have to assume at no point during the enthusiastic consensual sex with 12 men does the woman say "this hurts can we stop". At no point does she give any indication that this is no longer what she wants

Still obviously rape*

Why is more not being made of the actions of these men with regards to how “ consensual” sex with one woman and 12 men is even a thing?

True story :In my youth I had consensual sex with four men from the rugby team at a house party. Bit bravado, bit quite fancied it, bit drunk. However the men in question although they gave it a go were clearly not comfortable with it. And I quickly lost interest with the logistics involved .To the point where one told the others to bugger off. We had a chat and he said he’d always quite fancied me if I wanted to go out with him again. Next morning the other three were perfectly lovely and any time I bumped into them in town they were friendly and polite. No judgement at all.
So yes you can have group consensual sex but what happened in Cyprus was clearly something else.
Frankly those men are an embarrassment to themeselves and their parenting. As a mother I’d be making my son publicly apologise to her not suing her.

wrt the consent issue.

I am horrified that I have seen what I regard as several disinformation commentaries about this case.

My sole comfort is that I have no ready way of knowing if these are genuine and very isolated or actually part of an "all chaos is good" disinformation campaign.

@RevealAll four? Wow, that is alot.