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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

British woman found guilty of making up rape claims

308 replies

RoyalCorgi · 30/12/2019 10:12

The war on women continues:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/30/briton-found-guilty-over-ayia-napa-false-claim-cyprus

The poor, poor woman. Facing a year in jail for being gang-raped.

OP posts:
pallisers · 02/01/2020 16:07

The world seems to be going backwards with regards to rape cases.

I was thinking this recently. There have always been gangs of men who rape women but in the past they didn't pretend it was anything but rape. the 21st century has given us the same old gang rapes but now they pretend it is consensual. Can't think that is an improvement.

AriadneAufNaxos · 02/01/2020 17:19

pallisers your post at 14.59 is excellent by the way.

ferrier · 02/01/2020 17:47

Sometimes a sex club. Sometimes not.
Once again, I remind you that I am not saying this is what happened to this young woman. I am simply saying that to state, as several pp have done, that no woman would agree to sex with 12 men is incorrect.

The fact your friend might consent to this has no bearing on the level of proof needed to prove the case beyond all reasonable doubt in a particular case

Exactly. To be proven beyond reasonable doubt is the key. Not a 'belief' that it could never happen (giving consent in this case). But proven beyond reasonable doubt.

ferrier · 02/01/2020 17:49

And to further reiterate, I believe the girl too.

bd67th · 02/01/2020 18:04

She regularly finds 12 men on a night out to shag in one go does she? She must spend her nights out like someone herding sheep.

Grin Where does she find these 12 men? Back when I was younger, thinner, and more naive about how much some men hate women, I struggled to find two guys for planned threesomes[1]. I can't imagine anyone finding 12 willing men outwith a sex club, unless of course the men were premeditating a gang rape.

[1] And never more than two. I wanted some chance to fight them off if they turned nasty.

AriadneAufNaxos · 02/01/2020 18:07

I'm really struggling to see what point you are making ferrier. I really don't see it adds anything to this particular case.

Fraggling · 02/01/2020 18:30

Yeah the logistics involved would be a nightmare.

All back to hers? Could be miles away.

Also going against porn tropes again, most men who didn't know each other would be not keen on going off with a load of strangers and 1 girl to (wherever) and then having sex in front of all of them... A lot of men are pretty shy about this stuff despite what we're told, and would not be interested.

House parties when at school maybe? That would be a possibility. Or teams of sportsmen, who do seem to be into this, it's a team bonding thing I suppose. Consent often optional, reading the news.

Agree not sure what this adds to the conversation.

Fraggling · 02/01/2020 18:32

And going back with 1 man you're seeing, another 10 or so come in half way through and she says oh yes why not, I'm not surprised or in any way concerned, in fact this couldn't have gone better if I'd planned it!

We are advised this is likely, more likely than they were not interested in whether she was keen or not, having decided between them this was the plan.

RhinoskinhaveI · 02/01/2020 18:34

pallisers your post at 14.59 is excellent by the way
yep, what Pallisers said!!

ferrier · 02/01/2020 18:45

The point I am making is that some posters are stating things as truths which are not truths.
One example being that no woman would consent to sex with 12 men. This is not true. Some women do. It is unhelpful to this poor woman's cause to rely on such a statement.
There is no point using words like 'most' or 'unlikely' or 'a lot of'.
And btw, I didn't say regularly. Occasionally would be more accurate.

There were some other comments posted as 'truths' which were also questionable. The relevance is these comments/statements would not hold up in a court of law.

BlueCornsihPixie · 02/01/2020 18:49

I like the fact as well that 12 wouldn't bother orgy friend

Not that she's into 12 men, or wants to have sex with 12 men. Just it wouldn't bother her

I just imagine her looking around thinking she had say three, 12 eyes blinking back and shrugging "Oh well looks like it's 12 tonight"

BlueCornsihPixie · 02/01/2020 18:52

Which tbf is pretty much what happened. However unlike orgy friend who isnt concerned with how many people they have sex with at once, this girl was bothered.

Because no one actually turns around and sees 12 men and goes "Oh well!"

AriadneAufNaxos · 02/01/2020 19:28

The point I am making is that some posters are stating things as truths which are not truths
One example being that no woman would consent to sex with 12 men. This is not true. Some women do. It is unhelpful to this poor woman's cause to rely on such a statement
There is no point using words like 'most' or 'unlikely' or 'a lot of'

Nope still not seeing what your point is. There were I concede absolute statements being made but they were clearly in the context of the particular situation here - not the context you are proposing. I don't think labouring the point about the odd porn style fantasy added much to the discussion.

theflushedzebra · 02/01/2020 21:18

Pallisers, I didn't think anything on this thread would make me smile, but your post at 14:59 did. Great point.

dartboardio22 · 02/01/2020 21:24

At a party one night I got Very, drunk, the kind that you know you weren't even conscious at the time. I woke up in another man who'd been at the parties house, with no shoes, or tights on. I have no recollection whatsoever, of getting with him. Something in the back of my mind tells me I was raped. Surely being taken completely advantage of and not even being conscious to say yes, is rape.. I wonder.

I often got drunk and went home with guys, but this was seriously drunk, as in not even a snippet of memory.

We ended up staying at the house the next night for another party, no wonder the guy Was acting so off with me, after sleeping with me. Maybe he felt guilty because he took advantage, or some could say probably raped me. I'll never know.

bd67th · 02/01/2020 22:03

One example being that no woman would consent to sex with 12 men.

To make it absolutely clear: it is my fervent belief that outside of a pre-planned (by her) and safeguarded event such as a sex club or planned orgy, no woman would consent to having sex with 12 men. Certainly no woman would go back to her fling's hotel room and be OK with ten or so of his mates turning up. When I said "end of", it was in this context that is unplanned by her and unsafeguarded. As we have discovered from this case, groups of men left unsafeguarded will injure a woman. Every woman knows this.

Surely being taken completely advantage of and not even being conscious to say yes, is rape.. I wonder.

Yes. If he put his dick you and you were unconscious, then you could not consent and he could not reasonably believe you to have consented. If you don't recall what happened, it's not possible to know whether he did put his dick in you. Flowers anyway because the uncertainty cannot be pleasant.

littlecabbage · 02/01/2020 22:15

Have donated to the Crowdfunder, now off to Change.org to sign the petition.

AriadneAufNaxos · 02/01/2020 23:36

It's over £120,000. Signed and donated.

theflushedzebra · 03/01/2020 03:51

Here's the Mail -proving to e a surprising ally to women recently, nobody is more shocked than me about this.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7846555/Language-expert-Confession-British-womans-Cyprus-rape-case-dictated-police.html

theflushedzebra · 03/01/2020 04:05

Fuck those police, let's get this teen girl home.

HandsOffMyRights · 03/01/2020 09:57

Bumping this - it's too damn important.

Feminazgul · 03/01/2020 10:42

Yes it's possible for a woman to consent to sex with 12 men. I have a friend who does this kind of thing very happily.

A friend, hey?

Just out of interest, what do the other 11 men do when it's not their turn? Do they stand around watching or are they lined up outside?

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 03/01/2020 15:06

I believe her.

On the other hand ferrier I don't believe you, and I seriously wonder about your motivation for posting that on this thread.

ferrier · 03/01/2020 20:16

Oh dear! No motivation other than not liking people stating as absolute truths things which are matters of opinion. I do hope the posters are never on a jury.

AriadneAufNaxos · 03/01/2020 20:29

ferrier

Oh dear! No motivation other than not liking people stating as absolute truths things which are matters of opinion. I do hope the posters are never on a jury

What tosh. The posts making absolute statements were quite clearly to be read in context.

I sincerely hope you, with or without your man herding friend, are never on a jury.

Do you seriously think the posters on here are incapable of distinguishing between this young woman and say Paris Lees who is very open about being up for casual sex with multiple partners? (Apology to Ms Lee for dragging her into this but she seemed an apt example)

Or for that matter do you think we would not believe Paris Lees if she were ever in a situation where her multiple sex partners scenario went wrong?