Jo Swinson taking calls on Radio 5 at 9am

[Madvixen]

Jo Swinson will be on Radio 5's Your Call at 9am this morning taking listeners questions.

I just watched the interview on This Morning. Thanks for the link merrymouse.

She doesn't seem to have any idea about why a change of the sex marker on a birth certificate is significant.

She mentions this 3 times and suggests that she thinks this change is trivial and inconsequential.

"This is just about a change to birth certificates"

"What we're proposing is just a change in the way in which people can apply to change their birth certificate."

"What is being proposed about making it a smoother process for people to be able to change their birth certificate..."

Does she not realise that if a man commits a crime, and he is sent to prison, he will automatically be sent to a women's prison if the sex marker on his birth certificate says he is female?

Does she really have so little understanding of the significance of this 'trivial' change that she wants to push through? I'm not sure what's worse - that she has so little understanding of the issue that she doesn't realise what the consequences of her proposed change in the law would be, or that she does understand, and doesn't care about the effect on women.

I thought Holly Willoughby was awesome during that interview. This issue has a way of bringing out the inner-feminist-Jeremy-Paxman that lurks inside many of us!

Piers interviewing President of Lib Dem's now on self id. She is getting herself in a real tangle. Piers putting across good points.

Her name is Sal Brinton.

I am not techy enough but if someone could add this interview to the thread it's worth a watch. She was completely on the ropes. Piers said why are you not standing up for women - you are putting the rights of anybody who says they are a woman who has not gone through any transition, merely put up a hand and said I am a woman.

Piers is now saying women's right have to be protected, they are entitled to feel safe. Piers is a boor but vocal and gets attention. He is on side.

Sal is even more of a disaster area on self ID than Jo.

GMB and This Morning have different audiences to Newsnight and Radios 4/5. Great to see the topic getting the sunlight it deserves at last.

I really want the Lib Dem’s to be a big party in the UK and I agree with their Brexit policies, but I am so disappointed in JS. I cannot watch TV when she is. She is so inarticulate.

Sarah Vine has dismantled her thoroughly in the Daily Mail.

Sunlight, let the sunlight in! Let them argue this stuff publicly, against normal people.

Yes please, to the poster up thread who asked if someone could post a link to the GM.

Watching the UK election campain, particularly this debate, with great interest from the other side of the world.

ITV+1 now and you can catch Piers and Sal

Got it on!

Watching this now. Never thought the day would come when I’d be grateful for Piers Morgan. He’s absolutely demolishing that idiotic woman.

God. They just fall over themselves to put the validation of men above women's actual safety, dignity privacy.

Talking about the rights? She's talking about the rights that men are demanding to validate something that is untrue, in order that they can access everything to do with women.

She really, really hated Piers pointing out that you could just stick up your hand and say you're a woman. She is not prepared to admit it.

And again, this determination to paint men who identify as women as deserving of everything they want, over every woman in the country.

She doesn't see it. She cannot see how misogynistic she is.

Just watched this.

So whereas Jo Swinson shits on lesbians to make her BS arguments, Sal Brinton prefers to shit on intersex people.

It's great how much sunlight this is getting, thanks Lib Dems!

The conversation has to move on from 'risk assessment' though. We have more rights under the EA than just not to be actually hit or raped.

Evee Ed n when the interview finishes he carries on after the break! Susanna Reid never says a word. She calls herself a feminist but loses her voice when this subject gets aired.

Even when the interview....

So whereas Jo Swinson shits on lesbians to make her BS arguments, Sal Brinton prefers to shit on intersex people.

Indeed.

I know one of the intersex societies vehemently resisted being dragged into this. Was it GIRES who hounded them? I wonder if they have changed their minds.

How you can keep invoking a chromosome abnormality to pressure women into validating the untruth that men have changed sex, God only fucking knows.

It makes these people sound unutterably dense.

The conversation has to move on from 'risk assessment' though.

Agree.

The Lib Dems are proposing legislation that fundamentally makes it impossible to define what a woman is - otherwise why else would Jo Swinson struggle so much when asked to talk about biological sex?

She mentions this 3 times and suggests that she thinks this change is trivial and inconsequential.

"This is just about a change to birth certificates"

"What we're proposing is just a change in the way in which people can apply to change their birth certificate."

"What is being proposed about making it a smoother process for people to be able to change their birth certificate..."

Oh dear, did you miss the memo that this gaslighting isn't working any more, Jo?

Nobody seems to be asking why it should be easy to change a birth certificate, what a birth certificate is for or why it's necessary to record sex on a birth certificate in the first place.

If you change your name by deed poll or marriage you still have to list your old name on most applications that require an identity check (even if the existence of the old name has painful and traumatic associations). Yet changing a birth certificate is just a simple bit of admin?

Was it GIRES who hounded them?

Yes it was.

AISSG statement
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20061116120000/www.pfc.org.uk/pfclists/news-arc/2000q2/msg00081.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20061116120000/www.pfc.org.uk/pfclists/news-arc/2000q2/msg00081.htm

CAH group statement
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20061116120000/www.pfc.org.uk/pfclists/news-arc/2000q2/msg00090.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20061116120000/www.pfc.org.uk/pfclists/news-arc/2000q2/msg00090.htm

In Bernard Reed's 'sorry' letter he also says:

The organisations supporting intersex people and their parents are rightly protective of their members and were suspicious of my reason for approaching them. My pushing to establish a dialogue with them merely stiffened their resistance. Separately I have apologised to AISSG for being importunate towards them. I must leave it to them to decide what part of my recent correspondence with them to make public.

I have already expressed my regrets to ISNA and CISAE for their having been misled about GIRES' claims and intentions. I hope that my previous responses and this latest message will give them all the reassurance they need.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20061116120000/www.pfc.org.uk/pfclists/news-arc/2000q2/msg00093.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20061116120000/www.pfc.org.uk/pfclists/news-arc/2000q2/msg00093.htm

So that's at least 4 intersex orgs who politely told GIRES to fuck off in the year 2000.

It was this issue which led to the split between Press For Change and GIRES (GIRES was originally the charity arm of PFC):

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20061116120000/www.pfc.org.uk/pfclists/news-arc/2000q2/msg00084.htm#" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20061116120000/www.pfc.org.uk/pfclists/news-arc/2000q2/msg00084.htm#

Nobody seems to be asking why it should be easy to change a birth certificate, what a birth certificate is for or why it's necessary to record sex on a birth certificate in the first place.

Exactly.