Jo Swinson taking calls on Radio 5 at 9am

[Madvixen]

Jo Swinson will be on Radio 5's Your Call at 9am this morning taking listeners questions.

Pencils thank you for the transcript, it's much appreciated by me and others I'm sure.
Jesus, what a mess, she can't you know herself out of this car crash of an interview.

I heard it but seeing it (and reading it out to Mr Cunty) just makes me put my head in my hands.

It's their "gotcha" - except it's based on the delusion that women can't spot a man a mile off.

That's why a. any time women point that out here there's a flurry of indignation and b. comments about a specific transwoman's appearance are targeted and deleted. Because nobody is allowed to say what they see, because the entire edifice depends on pretending that we can't see it.

(And also because egos are fragile things.)

Thanks again for transcription Pencils - always so stark when it's in writing.

Seeing Jo on QT right now, and she's a different person - arguing with passion, v little stuttering, no failure to define simple terms.

Just how deeply she does believe that women can have penises, that sex is not binary, and that the future is gender neutral toilets and so on. Her lack of understanding and coherent argument on these issues is reminiscent of PC Gul.

Did Jo Swinson sell out? And if so, to who? Her donors, the LibDem party activists like Sarah & Zoe & Helen Belcher - or the TRAs, who according to the Denton report, are working hard to get this legislation through on the quiet?

It's funny how trans activists have this fantasy about 'policing genitals' and being 'asked for a certificate' when going into changing rooms, toilets etc. It's their "gotcha" - except it's based on the delusion that women can't spot a man a mile off. Hearing an allegedly intelligent woman coming out with this batshittery is quite unnerving.

Yes, that struck me too.

This entire house of cards rests on the assumption that women can't see, or that we can at least be persuaded not to.

Why do you think males can be women?

Cos only males can be transwomen. Females can not be transwomen. And vice versa with transmen.

If sex is irrelevant then how do you define what a transwomen is and what transphobia is?

If sex isn't irrelevant why are you pretending it isn't as part of your policy making?

There was a suggestion by the Beaumont Society in the 90s that the wives of transsexuals were at high risk of psychological breakdown following them coming out. This was when the numbers coming out was much lower.

As far as I am aware, there hasn't been any meaningful research into the impact on families in this area. There seems, anecdotally, that there is a need to look into this area to help families as a whole. There is a real taboo about the subject which no one is willing to face up to. Families are merely expected to accept it, with no regard as to how this impacts their own identity.

Therefore have you done research into the psychological impact on the close families of trans people, as part of your proposals to 'end the spousal veto'?

What support is there available for transwidows and their children (and the parents / siblings) struggling to deal with the effects of such a change in the family which centres their emotional needs first? Keeping in mind that children's emotional security and needs should be the most important concern in a safeguarding context.

All existing support I am aware of, is centred on the trans persons identity and is centred on that with families only added on to that as an afterthought and with an emphasis on validating the trans identity rather than listening to how others might be struggling.

Or simply.

Why do the LDs wish to remove the sex based exceptions from the Equality act which relate to vulnerable women (sexual abuse survivors) or women in vulnerable situations (in hospitals or shelters).

What is your justification for saying these vulnerabilities they are not as important as trans identity?

Bravo Anna

(Secretly hoping she's a mumsnetter!)

The only substantive part of Swinson's responses - gender pay gap - she got woefully, factually wrong.

Gender pay gap data is taken from HMRC records, not from whatever colouring in someone did on their HR diversity form. HMRC record legal sex, there is no self-ID. They recognise only male or female, no 'they', no 'X'. This is why we have been able to at least start recording the inequality and start holding companies to account.

I talked to someone recently who is involved with equal pay audits and she said it's impossible to gather accurate data for any PC that is decided on a self-ID basis. For instance, there has been discussion about the race pay gap and how to record that data. She said the highest paid race is 'prefer not to say'.

Absolutely. When I see a trans woman I will smile and be polite and call the trans woman Sarah or whatever name the person has chosen but there is a big yellow flashing light in my brain with Austin Powers shouting "that's a man, man". It's innate that we can tell one sex from the other. It's a pretty vital part of the survival of the species!

tenor.com/view/austin-powers-its-aman-man-gif-10702529

TRAs, who according to the Denton report, are working hard to get this legislation through on the quiet?

Oops. That ball is somewhat irretrievable now.

What, people don't just sort of guess who they might be able to procreate with? If I'm planning to shag a woman should I make sure I have the morning after pill available not because TWAW but because really who knows what genitalia anyone might have, it's pretty much random, no way you could possibly make an educated guess?

This is legit the world people want us to pretend that we live in btw. Your auntie could actually be your uncle and you'd never know because there are no visual indications of a person's sex whatsoever.

(Well, other than makeup, that apparently is a clear guarantee that you're looking at a woman. Which means I know quite a lot of penis having women actually, having been a teenage goth and grown up in the 70s and 80s.)

Anna in Warwickshire is a legend.

In the past, er, three days I have spoken to two people who are either definitely not or almost certainly not voting LibDem because of this self-ID fiasco.

We had a LibDem poster up. It fell down today, somewhat symbolically, and I haven't bothered to put it back up.

Thanks very much for the transcript Pencils.

There's a lot to choose from, but I think this is the worst:

Well clearly in terms of the gender pay gap, members of staff will identify their gender in, you know, company records to HR typically, and the company will then produce the statistics accordingly.

Does she know anything?

is in any way kind of predatory or - um ... er, you know, antisocial, then the ... the institution, the gym or whatever it is, [you know?] the swimming pool, you know, should - should be able to take action on that basis,

If only Jo could explain her secret method for preventing crime before it has happened!

What about those of us who think that a male person being in a space where women and girls are undressing is inherently antisocial behavior even if that person doesn't assault anyone?

If only Jo could explain her secret method for preventing crime before it has happened!

Maybe Layla Moran has taught her to see into people's souls.

Well clearly in terms of the gender pay gap, members of staff will identify their gender in, you know, company records to HR typically, and the company will then produce the statistics accordingly.

I bet HR can't wait to tell the share holders how they can eliminate the gender pay gap overnight.

What about those of us who think that a male person being in a space where women and girls are undressing is inherently antisocial behavior even if that person doesn't assault anyone?

This is why I keep banging on about EA harassment.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26

The 'unwanted conduct' is creating a policy that allows any male who says he is a woman to get undressed or even just hang around in a space reserved for women to get undressed.

We do actually have legal rights beyond just not getting hit or raped.

I’ve just listened. I’m speechless.

Maybe Layla Moran has taught her to see into people's souls.

Really the Lib Dems should be making more of this. Johnson and Corbyn keep trying to out do each other on police numbers, but the Lib Dems can fight crime with ESP.

And also kindness. If women in every party were just nice enough men would stop committing crimes.

What about those of us who think that a male person being in a space where women and girls are undressing is inherently antisocial behavior even if that person doesn't assault anyone?

It's possibly just me, but I thought that point was screaming in its absence iyswim. Surely everyone knows a man doesn't have to be acting in an overly predatory way to be a threat? "I was just asking her if she wanted a drink" etc