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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Lush has fallen

239 replies

WomanBornNotWorn · 30/11/2019 11:21

One more shop to walk past

m.facebook.com/events/1490182737818126?acontext=%7B%22ref%22%3A%223%22%2C%22action_history%22%3A%22null%22%7D&aref=3

Lush has fallen
OP posts:
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/12/2019 13:45

For Mockers and anyone who has never seen this glorious piece of complete lunacy before.

SmallCalpolFiend · 02/12/2019 13:47

@TheProdigalKittensReturn
*Given how you're defining "women" this statement is quite literally meaningless. Or, wait, do you actually know what a woman is when it's convenient?"
You're right, here I do mean cis women. I've been trying not to use that word because, for some unfathomable reason, I gather it upsets people. I didn't actually come to start a bunfight.

Cis women get mistaken for men. Cis men get mistaken for women.

Anyway, I only came here to try to persuade undecided people that this was a place where there were a lot of extreme opinions about trans issues. I didn't come to argue with people whose minds won't be changed.

MockersFactCheckMN · 02/12/2019 13:49

Shock Does Sister Jenny Agutter know about this????

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/12/2019 13:49

I only came here to try to persuade undecided people that this was a place where there were a lot of extreme opinions about trans issues

I believe the word you're looking for is "recruit".

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/12/2019 13:50

I love how Snidely Whiplash-like the doctor is.

squeaver · 02/12/2019 13:52

I know this is slightly off-topic for this thread now, but I thought you might be interested in this, on Lush.

twitter.com/MondayFake/status/1195255732695961603

Datun · 02/12/2019 13:56

This thread is another brilliant demonstration of why NoDebate was originally determined such an effective tactic.

Datun · 02/12/2019 13:59

Cis women get mistaken for men. Cis men get mistaken for women.

There are 6500 genetic differences between men and women. A statistic that women globally have evolved to be ultra aware of as it is literally life saving.

Or not.

As evidenced by the 177 million females who never made it. I wonder how on earth they were identified??

MrsJamin · 02/12/2019 14:14

@squeaver that thread is shocking, I feel very 'taken in' by Lush's marketing and feel the need to look elsewhere for earth-friendly toiletries.

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 02/12/2019 14:36

6,500 genetic differences between female and male humans:
www.bionews.org.uk/page_95987

SmallCalpolFiend cis is both nonsensical and banned according to Mumsnet guidelines.

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 02/12/2019 14:37

And for the lurkers, sex is observed at birth (not 'assigned') and determined at conception.

ASimpleLampoon · 02/12/2019 14:52

@littlecabbage I am not a particularly vocal person on mumsnet regarding trans rights. Any search for my past posts will show that, although I don't expect anyone to be really bothered. I'm just a) not an arsehole and b) I live and let live with matters that do not directly affect me.

I came onto this thread because I saw it trending and I thought "Lush has fallen" meant "lush has gone into administration" like Mothercare and others have recently, I had no idea that this was code for "anti - trans rant" or I wouldn't have bothered. I know that there's no point trying to get people on mumsnet to show empathy and compassion on this subject so I don't bother. When I was in @puds11 position I didn't know much about trans people I took the time to educate myself a bit and I just decided to live and let live and I don't see how trans people making decisions over their own lives and bodies negatively affects me.

I stand by my previous comment. There are plenty of places to learn more about this issue which will offer a more balanced, more informed and rational view.

Ereshkigal · 02/12/2019 14:59

Actually, no... humans are pretty good at deciding who fits the standard ideals of what "masculine" and "feminine" should be, but I thought we were wanting to reject that, no? I know quite a few women who have been repeatedly mistaken for men - sometimes agressively so - but that doesn't make them men.

No. People generally (99.5% of the time) know what SEX a person is. It's not determined by whether they are "masculine" or "feminine"

Ereshkigal · 02/12/2019 15:01

I know that there's no point trying to get people on mumsnet to show empathy and compassion on this subject so I don't bother.

Why is the "empathy and compassion" being demanded all going the one way? Have a little think about that. Why don't you care what other women feel?

DickKerrLadies · 02/12/2019 15:06

Well my sex was known before I was born

Anyway, I can't be arsed to play the game where we have to pretend that it's how masculine or feminine someone is that determines whether we can tell their sex or not. It's just too ridiculous to answer without a dose of sarcasm, and that would be unkind of me.

Datun · 02/12/2019 15:10

I don't see how trans people making decisions over their own lives and bodies negatively affects me.

Maybe that's because you're not in a homeless shelter, rape refuge, need women's aid, are incarcerated in prison, belong to a religion that precludes men in female spaces, want a female HCP to do your smear/mammogram, aren't on a women's mental health ward, aren't a 13-year-old girl trying on her first bra in Marks & Spencer's, or a pupil getting a urinary infection because they don't want to use a mixed sex toilets?

Or plays sport?

Datun · 02/12/2019 15:13

Actually, no... humans are pretty good at deciding who fits the standard ideals of what "masculine" and "feminine" should be,

SmallCalpolFiend, I would be really, really interested to have a list of what you think constitutes masculine and feminine, since you are of the opinion that they are so easily recognisable?

Just a small list. Anything really.

IwantedtobeEmmaPeel · 02/12/2019 15:14

Like a PP up thread they lost my hard earned dish with their anti police campaign and definitely won't be getting It back following this latest stunt. Plus the pong from their shops is vile.

Ereshkigal · 02/12/2019 15:15

You're right, here I do mean cis women.

So you're saying yes you do know what a woman is, you just feel the need to insert a meaningless, offensive little prefix before using the word, to pander to the wishes of a small, noisy, demanding group of biologically male transactivists? We all know what that prefix means, however you want to tie yourself in knots explaining it.

There is only one type of woman. A female human. Women are not a subset of our own sex. Not everyone has a "gender identity". We are just female and the name for a mature (as opposed to a child) individual of the female sex is "woman". That is what it means. Biologically male people who perform femininity according to sex stereotypes are not actually "women", whatever this nonsensical ideology says. I reject this sly framing wholeheartedly.

Ereshkigal · 02/12/2019 15:18

^Maybe that's because you're not in a homeless shelter, rape refuge, need women's aid, are incarcerated in prison, belong to a religion that precludes men in female spaces, want a female HCP to do your smear/mammogram, aren't on a women's mental health ward, aren't a 13-year-old girl trying on her first bra in Marks & Spencer's, or a pupil getting a urinary infection because they don't want to use a mixed sex toilets?
^^
^Or plays sport?

Yes, some people are remarkably unimaginative when it comes to displaying this "empathy and compassion" they're preaching.

Ereshkigal · 02/12/2019 15:30

What I was doing, was ridiculing your argument (awks! sorry...)

Awks for you that you didn't do it very well.

that if a kid is punished for wearing dresses that that makes them male. Apologies if that wasn't the point you were making.

It's an amusingly poor reading of her point about male socialisation, and then you've doubled down on it! She didn't say anything remotely like that. No GC person would Hmm

KatvonHostileExtremist · 02/12/2019 16:02

I just happened on this thread whilst checks notes , I was being womenly hanging around mumsnet. Yawn! So hard being a womanly woman doing women stuff!

It was absolutely totally coincidental that I can trot out the mantas of trans activism like ive learned them by heart. Who'd have thought it! I have an amazing level of empathy, I can checks notes again actually, literally, feel the feelings of the people DEFINITELY NOT ME who feel a feeling of wrong bodyness. You can't? MY GOODNESS! Are you sure you're female?

You say it's fact that there's two sexes and 7.6 billion genders. That's impossible. Everyone knows magical essence defines sex and gender. Which are definitely not the same things.

Now I'm terribly busy and I've only got a moment, because I'm very important, so just wanted to let you know you are all hateful bigots.

😘

KatvonHostileExtremist · 02/12/2019 16:03

Are you Sally Hinds?! Because you make just about as much sense!

eve1003 · 02/12/2019 17:00

Couldn't disagree more......been an employee for Lush for over 3 years......I can say first hand that they are a fair and considerate Company to work for.