Posie Parker. For women and children. I adore her.

[Backinthecloset123]

That's all.

Pointless argument as the GRA isn't going to be repealed. Don't see what purpose this serves apart from spreading general hostility towards trans people? It's a bit like constantly spouting that gay marriage should be banned and gay people shouldn't have equal rights - pointless because it's already law and isn't being challenged by any political party.

Gender self-ID is not law yet - and women still have exemptions written into the Equality Act - even if many people are choosing to ignore them.

If it weren't for women like Posie, Julie Bindel, Julia Long, Jean Hatchet, Karen I-S, Joan MacFarlane, Joanna Cherry, and many others, self ID would probably be law already. TRA orgs thought they could sneak it through without even consulting women. They've failed - so far - and there IS a debate. More and more people are realising the impact of gender self ID on women.

There is everything to fight for.

Nope. You don’t get to determine what the issue is or whether it should be debated. I have given a list of why this is important. You haven’t addressed a single point. Compelled speech versus freedom of speech. We will wait for the verdict but I am very pleased that The Telegraph et al are writing about both cases and the sinister threat to freedom they represent

BovaryX completely disagree. The issue at hand is the Equality Act exemptions and whether they will be upheld.

It might be for you. It's not for me, or many other women.

You want to allow the GRA to stand, and for people to change their sex legally?

What criteria do you suggest?

I'm really interested in the answer Sappho, as a radical feminist, what criteria do men have to fulfil in order to be considered women?

I must say that sapphos's posts are sounding like increasingly like TRA arguments.

"assigned at birth" "It's only a piece of paper" - "it won't have any impact on women..."

Forgetting that Stonewall has actually lobbied the government to get rid of the exemptions in the Equality Act. Conveniently.

Sappho Hasn't answered one of my questions, I wonder if they will answer the one I've just asked.

Datun I'm being realistic. There is no way the GRA will ever be repealed so it's fighting a losing battle. It's been law for about 15 years now.

However, campaigning to strengthen and uphold the EA exemptions could have the effect of making a GRC effectively meaningless. That would be a great achievement for women's rights.

Strengthening EA exemptions is something concrete to campaign for. The threat to the EA exemptions are something many (particularly Stonewall supporters) aren't aware of.

Some great posts on this thread from women who understand very clearly the ramifications of self Id and the hideous effect that the cult of transgenderism is having on vulnerable children.
iam
I am very upset that Posie has been banned from Facebook as I enjoyed her off the cuff video chats while sat outside supermarkets and the comments on many of the posts.
Do I always agree with her - No of course I don't.
Do I care about her appearance - No, though we both dye our hair.
Do I care she's a SAHM - No i stayed at home with my son for a few years before training for a different and successful career to the one i had before staying home.
Am I a feminist - No i am an old fashioned womens liberationist.
Am I gender critical- OMG yes yes yes.
Do I think Posie Parker is awesome - totally.

I'm really interested in the answer Sappho, as a radical feminist, what criteria do men have to fulfil in order to be considered women?

As per the law trans women are legally considered to be women. As much as we can argue it's legal fiction, it's the law and the law isn't going to change. It's not defeatist or 'unfemimist' to state this - it's realistic.

What we can do is campaign to get some pretty massive caveats put in place to ensure this law does not negatively impact women - see my other post re EA exemptions.

The issue at hand is the Equality Act exemptions and whether they will be upheld. As long as these exemptions are in place, strengthened and organisations are made aware that they can be upheld then women are protected.

No. That's not the issue at Posie's hand. It's the issue at your hand. Why must she be mandated to have the issue as you define it?

But y'know, let's play with your derail.

1. Single sex services/spaces are permitted discrimination in two ways where trans is concerned - a) by sex (if they don't have a GRC) and b) by gender reassignment (if they do have a GRC). The bar for B is much higher than the bar for A, so if you introduce self-ID, you are likely to increase the number of GRC holders and therefore dilute the exemptions, even though you promise to keep them.

1. How is applying the exemptions to be made workable? You can't ask to see a GRC on privacy grounds and the DBS procedure (when needed) is highly opaque wrt to trans people. Also, identity documents are self-ID already (driving licence, passport, etc) so how will providers develop workable policies on the basis of excluding via A or B as above if they have no means to identify groups?

Posie is a straight talker with no time for all this and that is why we have all the fuss about her. Because, when it boils down to it, her position is I don't give a flying fuck about the men. And that's absolutely not allowed.

Sapphos, as a ‘radical feminist,’ you have called PP a ‘scary 1950s housewife’ and now you think she should sit down and shut up because she ‘doesn’t identify as a feminist?’ Tres bizarre

Very bizarre. There was a half- hearted non- apology but Sappho still can't explain or apologise for her very failure to grasp basic feminist principles here.

Yeah, not answering any of my questions, Sappho.

Of course the law can be repealed! Laws are repealed all the time. It's what feminism does. They have repealed loads of laws in order to advance the cause of women's rights.

The GRA was designed as a workaround to same-sex marriage. It's completely unnecessary and obsolete.

My question was, what do you, personally, as a radical feminist, think the criteria should be to get a gender recognition certificate?

Is that not a question you can answer?

Sapphos,
Not impressed with your failure to address any of my points so I ask again:
A)conflicting rights of women and the trans lobby,
B)the extent of regulatory capture which has meant that radical policies are being implemented in both the state and private sector without any democratic mandate
C)an existential threat to freedom of speech which is explicitly highlighted by two cases awaiting verdicts
D) the use of compelled speech and its implications
E)the impact of social contagion on children and teens
F) the pathologising of any gender non conformity
That’s what it’s about. What’s your position on A) thru E)?

Datun and LangCleg - you both asked same question.

I personally think the current process of obtaining a GRC is sound and should not change.

How is applying the exemptions to be made workable?

I've seen a few job adverts stating trans women are exempt from applying. They would be breaking the law to do so.

There is no way the GRA will ever be repealed so it's fighting a losing battle

I don't agree with this assessment at all. In my view the medical scandal that is transing children and the endless attacks on women will inevitably lead to an enormous backlash. If trans privilege activists actually had a clue they'd recognise this and tone it down, ensuring privacy for women and protection for children. But they don't and sooner or later the general public will say enough to such a degree politicians can no longer ignore.

The question at that point isn't will trans privileges be revoked but whose rights will be dragged down by and with them? Homosexual people are particularly at risk of losing their hard fought rights in my view.

This is interesting but I have to go out now. I might start another thread later so not to detail this one

Well I have just been deleted, first time, I have no idea why! But I have a crystal clear idea who....

I personally think the current process of obtaining a GRC is sound and should not change.

Interesting. How does that fit in with radical feminism?

How does the criteria required for a GRC subject the person to the systematic oppression that women are subjected to?

Well I have just been deleted, first time, I have no idea why! But I have a crystal clear idea who....

You were deleted because you quoted me and my post was deleted. My post that was deleted expressed considerable anger at another poster who openly goaded a mother in distress. On a parenting website.

And you still haven't answered my question.

What criteria do you believe should be required to be legally thought of as a woman?

Wow. Thank you for the explanation Lang. I don’t know what to say. Grim

I've seen a few job adverts stating trans women are exempt from applying. They would be breaking the law to do so.

Ah, gotcha. You think that law protecting XX persons should be based on an honour system for XY persons (when XY persons are the oppressor class and XX persons the oppressed class).

How would you say this fits in with a radical feminist perspective?