Call to action for Bravissimo customers

[Itsallgonetoofar]

So any woman with large boobs quickly learn she a subset of men are obsessed and fetishise large breasts. Any woman without personal experience can confirm this by a quick look at a porn site.

So Bravissimo is loved by many of us. Up until now it's largely been a male free zone staffed by helpful women who are almost always with plenty of norkage themselves so they understand their customers challenges. Joanni Walshe's article in the Sun shows that is changing as they are saying they will welcome transgender customers.

I contacted customer services online to check, got a message that it's no time al all the case and if I left my phone number someone would ring me! Somewhat to my surprise they did, nice young woman spent 30mins telling me in shocked terms that of course they would never let a man in Bravissimo changing rooms but also explained that if someone's was 'on a journey to being a woman' they'd would be welcome. There was much talk of the 'woman on a journey' and of course they would never do anything that would lead to anyone being uncomfortable but that's even though I would be uncomfortable I was to be nice and kind to this person on a journey.

Several things struck me,

• they've clearly were concerned about the numbers of customers getting in touch
• the person I spoke to was very ignorant about transwomen, trans activism and woefully naive
• they have give no thought to the dangers of hidden cameras being placed in their changing rooms and if we think about those men with a large boob fetish I think that is a real danger not envy

I emailed them to unsubscribe from the Bravissimo mailing list. I explained ( genuinely how I feel ) that my 32jj breasts have brought unwanted male attention on me a young age. Because they have. Unfortunately I couldn’t shop with them anymore because the thought of men in the fitting room was too much for me while discussing my breasts. I need that privacy due to past experiences. So they’ve lost the £100 or so I regularly spend with them too.

Of course they cannot discriminate if a male born person wishes to try on clothes.

Why not? Bravissimo sell products designed for the female body. Male bodies by definition do not require the service that Bravissimo provides.

You might as well claim that Bravissimo are discriminatory for selling only knickers and not jock straps.

Clothes are clothes and many transwomen have boobs. And some of them also have a real mental problem that they are trying their best to live with.

A store has worked out how they will approach the various issues to ensure women's safety and dignity is protected whilst not excluding anyone, and that's still not good enough?

Perhaps stores with only one changing area have never been approached by a transwoman? Perhaps they cross bridges as they get to them with a clearly defined policy in place?

Until employees of bravissimo start saying they are being bullied into performing service that 5hey are not comfortable with then really there is nothing to whinge about ..and since we don't know bravissimo staff policies around customers you feel uncomfortable with,...

Can I just add that PERSONALLY I wouldn’t have a problem with post-surgery transsexuals, it’s this new breed of aggressive, entitled cross-dressers who are heterosexual and don’t transition that terrify me

Indeed! And stores such as John Lewis have been permitting such people for a long time into their changing areas.......I've yet to notice or have an uncomfortable experience, myself......and none of the staff I've spoken with have either. This is not to say some haven't!

As you say, for me, the real danger is Self ID; along with the new breed of radical transgenderism which now incorporates and includes all manner of men: from middle aged fetishists to woke blokes with beards.

Can I just add that PERSONALLY I wouldn’t have a problem with post-surgery transsexuals, it’s this new breed of aggressive, entitled cross-dressers who are heterosexual and don’t transition that terrify me

100% this. And these are exactly the people who are driving this campaign to have access to female spaces.

I cannot understand why people refer to this discussion as a "whinge".
If you don't like it, just hide the thread but the rest of us want to discuss it.

Odyy, they may not want to be a target of tra pile one if they are managing this sensitively. Can you speak with them and report back?

Bravissimo sell products designed for the female body.

They sell bras for people who have boobs and need bras.

Can I just add that PERSONALLY I wouldn’t have a problem with post-surgery transsexuals, it’s this new breed of aggressive, entitled cross-dressers who are heterosexual and don’t transition that terrify me

I used to be actively supportive of transsexuals, back when I assumed they would all be the Blair White or Thai khathoey variety of trans (gay, notably non macho from childhood, get along well with women in general). And then I realized that that group of people now represent only a tiny percentage of the people calling themselves transwomen.

I was fine sharing most spaces with people like Blair, and would probably still feel that way if opening the door to people like Blair didn't let people like McKinnon or Oger or Yaniv in too.

Ok, change the word whinge to " actually the first real evidence of transphobia that I have come across on MN and it breaks my heart "

People are actually saying that transwomen should not be offered anywhere to try on underwear to support their boobs in a store ( unless I guess it's a dedicated transwomen store, how tolerant)

They sell bras for people who have boobs and need bras.

Why does that justify access for people who do not have boobs?

If a male needs support for his breasts, then there is a case to be made for finding a location where he can be fitted for a bra.

Unfortunately I couldn’t shop with them anymore because the thought of men in the fitting room was too much for me while discussing my breasts.

Have you had an experience of having a man in the next door fitting room, though? Or is it just thinking about the possibility?

I do get a feel that many are creating a problem where there isn't one yet.

'I do get a feel that many are creating a problem where there isn't one yet.' If you think a problem doesn't yet exist, may I ask where are you personally drawing a line? What would have to happen to you or someone you love before you feel it would be worth speaking up?

The problem of women being harassed, coerced, deprioritised, sexualised, spied on, touched, hurt, flashed, filmed and otherwise abused, often in private spaces which are meant to keep us safe, is real. The problem of male violence is real, surely that's where this whole issue comes from - ?

I do get a feel that many are creating a problem where there isn't one yet.

So let's just set women shoppers up to the inevitability of a distressing incident happening. Abd when it happens, what then? It's not something happening, it's until a woman speaks out about something happening to her. And then she'll be told she's trabsphobic, it was just a one-off anyway.

We don't allow men in women's changing rooms normally because some** men abuse that situation. We didn't have mixed sex changing rooms until someone was spied on, filmed, assaulted, raped.

Either you support the safety of every single woman, or you admit that you're willing to sacrifice one woman's safety for the rights of men. I'm unwilling to set even one woman up for some type of sexual assault.

I didn't even mean an incident. Has anyone actually found or heard men in Bravissimo changing rooms to start boycotting Bravissimo for allowing them?

Fairfax, wrong. My friend who is trans has her own boobs and has never had BA surgery actually!

She's post op, takes her hormones and has her own boobs. She's also Asexual.

Should she not be allowed to go and get fitted simply because she happened to be Trans?

Should she not be allowed to go and get fitted simply because she happened to be Trans?

Your friend shouldn't be allowed in women's changing rooms because your friend is male and women have rights too. Nothing to do with "trans". That's not why women object.

She isnt male. And you're being transphobic. HTH!

But yes, cross sex hormones can cause breast development in biological males to a greater or lesser extent.

It's not actually possible to change biological sex. Male people are not female. HTH

Greeny your friend is a transwomen. Hth