I'm loving Catilyn Jenner but..

[MissMarpletheMurderer]

I think she is funny and sassy and doesn't take herself too seriously. Her dude looks like a lady piece on IACeleb showed her humor.
However tonight she said that it's hard work becoming a women as there is so much more work (James called it women admin) and that she needs to get up an hour earlier now she is a women and can't just shower and go.
Why does this make you a woman. I wash and go, I don't have manicures nor do I wear make up, I do not get up early to get ready but I'm equally a woman. Why should woman equal groomed?

One of the problems for Jenner is that their area of Olympic achievement is men only, so if they claim to always have been a woman they will have to give up their medals.

Yes they need to hold on to that male privilege.

reginafelangee My best friend's like this. She's nearly 50, has beautiful skin and is really pretty, but she won't leave the house without more makeup than Bowie in the Ziggy Stardust days. To the point that if she hasn't got her 'face' on, she won't open the door to the postman. lt's beautifully and tastefully done, but it takes her over an hour and she's made us late for things on many occasions because she won't venture out with anything less than the full whack on.
l suspect that with her, it's a confidence thing.

Many men enjoy wearing lovely dresses and putting on make-up. They love the accoutrements of what is considered femininity in our culture. I wish we could just let accept that this is a natural part of being male and divorce it from sex. Because silky underwear and eyeliner do not a lady make.

Justhadathought

I'm not naive.....

I did not make any assertions, accusations, or otherwise about you as an individual but about the group of people that would assert that reality TV is remotely realistic.

It is still possible to see and observe the character of individuals. Even scripted situations cannot disguise their essential nature.

I disagree as editing can change all perception of an individual based on timing, music, added/removed frames of reactions from others or the subject, lighting/filters/saturation, etc. I've seen it in progress during editing. I'm not being a jerk here just reporting my firsthand observational experience behind the scenes.

For example, your first response to my rather innocuous post, even though scripted considering the format of communication, was rather rude and abrasive. Personally, I would always seek to find a more emollient way of expressing myself - avoiding, in the first instance, making things overtly personal or hostile/sarcastic.

I did not make personal/rude/hostile attacks on you nor on your group (reality TV fans), I quoted you but did not direct it at you like I did by placing your name at the top in this reply. There are many PPs expressing their enjoyment of reality TV in this thread on the FWR board.

I get that you don't enjoy my sarcastic snarkiness but at no point was it directed at you as an individual. Sarcastic and snarky, yes! Incredulous, yes! Abrasive, maybe? Rude, personal, or hostile, no!

IME people make a lot of assumptions about TV and production which are patently untrue with the most egregious assumptions falling in the reality TV sphere. So yes I was having a little fun and hoping to encourage thought in those with said assumptions, to tease the group, not to insult/hurt you as a person.

This thread makes no sense to me.

Most of the comments are from posters reading way too much into what she said. Caitlyn never said that women are required to spend longer grooming or that that’s part of being a woman. She just said that was her experience. Period.

So much low level transphobia as per usual.

So much low level transphobia as per usual.

You should report that. The moderators will remove it. Transphobia isn't tolerated on MN.

@plantainchips
So much low level transphobia as per usual

Yup

Oh, and I'm another one who's not really getting how what she's said is saying that women should spend ages grooming or make up is part of being a woman.
She's just doing what she feels is right for her.
This coming from someone who never wears make up, I'm out the door in 5 seconds flat, I'm doing well if I bother to brush my hair and make sure my t-shirt's clean lol (I lol but it's actually true)
Nothing wrong with a full face of make up either if someone likes that.
We're all different.
Shocker

CJ is 70 years old. Are they planning on having a menopause?

Are women of 70 given HRT or do the risks outweigh the benefits at that age?

The word "sassy" is nauseating. Especially as a descriptor for this particular person.

Why is the thread about an ageing c list father still here on FWR and not over on tv topic?

I'm assuming this thread is still here because presumably it's a perfectly acceptable topic to discuss in FWR - as in
however tonight she said that it's hard work becoming a women as there is so much more work (James called it women admin) and that she needs to get up an hour earlier now she is a women and can't just shower and go Why does this make you a woman
Sounds like a perfectly fine feminist topic of discussion to me?

Well I know of one 70 year old woman who will never get HRT because she died the night Jenner got behind the wheel.

Her family have to deal with that and meanwhile Jenner is talking about makeup.

The whole scenario just beggars belief.

The car accident case was rejected since she wasn't speeding and was found to be pure accident. She was cleared of any wrongdoing.

Yet her family just want an apology.

Headline from 2 days ago: 'I'm A Celeb's Caitlyn Jenner killed OAP in horror car crash and never said sorry'

www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/im-celebs-caitlyn-jenner-killed-20927125

Salt. Wounds.

That's awful, what a horrific way to die. That poor woman.

Oh, and I'm another one who's not really getting how what she's said is saying that women should spend ages grooming or make up is part of being a woman.She's just doing what she feels is right for her

Caitlyn is doing that because after a life time of transvestitism, 'becoming a woman' is not a natural practice of just being - but a studied performance. Taking time to get ready implies 'working' oneself into role ( it is for anyone who spends so much time getting ready in order to present a facade, women included), because for natal men it is a full time occupation to adopt and maintain the 'presentations' of femininity. a sudden loss of consciousness, or a momentary lapse and they fall back into masculine posture and mannerism.

The car accident case was rejected since she wasn't speeding and was found to be pure accident. She was cleared of any wrongdoing.

So that absolves Jenner of any need to apologise? Surely that’s not what you’re saying?

Justhadathought
Well quite, I can actually see that - I mean in that sense make up and the so called "feminine" look would be a major factor, as in I can't blame her for wanting to spend ages on her make up, clothes etc.
As you say, not as easy if you are of masculine build.
For me, doesn't matter whether I slap make up on or not (I never do) I assume I still look female!

I still don’t get why this thread was started in FWR instead of Telly Addicts. And the OP seems to have vanished.

XXMansplainShieldActive
Why is the thread about an ageing c list father still here on FWR and not over on tv topic?

It's still here because posters are posting on it - all 8 pages of it.

And the OP seems to have vanished.

Still very active on other threads though.

I still don’t get why this thread was started in FWR instead of Telly Addicts

Presumably because whether wearing make up, doing your hair etc makes you a proper woman is a perfectly valid feminist topic?

Presumably because whether wearing make up, doing your hair etc makes you a proper woman is a perfectly valid feminist topic?

What is a “proper woman”?

And probably if it had been posted on another board we wouldn’t have been so ruthlessly monitored and could have stated some biological truths that we don’t get away with on FWR.