I'm loving Catilyn Jenner but..

[MissMarpletheMurderer]

I think she is funny and sassy and doesn't take herself too seriously. Her dude looks like a lady piece on IACeleb showed her humor.
However tonight she said that it's hard work becoming a women as there is so much more work (James called it women admin) and that she needs to get up an hour earlier now she is a women and can't just shower and go.
Why does this make you a woman. I wash and go, I don't have manicures nor do I wear make up, I do not get up early to get ready but I'm equally a woman. Why should woman equal groomed?

Are you coming back OP?

I don't understand why you started a thread on FWR about a transwoman with an "amazing figure" 🤔 and makeup and haven't returned to discuss.

You know who's got the true measure of CJ? South Park, that's who.

No, she, or you, doesn't have to do it to be a woman

After much observation I would say that part of the reason for the extra time to get ready, is because the natural instincts and habitual responses have to be studiously and very consciously overcome.

The long routine of hair and make-up etc is the way that person 'works' themselves into role. Assuming poses, postures, mannerisms etc associated with femininity does not come naturally; and as soon as conscious effort slips, the masculine soon re-asserts itself.

Tinsel I feel like I'm on Telly Addicts or Style & Beauty right now..

Tinsel I feel like I'm on Telly Addicts or Style & Beauty right now.. confused

I've never been on those threads/forums but do enjoy a bit of reality TV - as it can be very instructive re: the human condition.

The long routine of hair and make-up etc is the way that person 'works' themselves into role. Assuming poses, postures, mannerisms etc associated with femininity does not come naturally; and as soon as conscious effort slips, the masculine soon re-asserts itself

Of course that can be true of women too - but women don't slip into ingrained masculinity so much as their natural selves.

'Being a woman' for most T to F is pretty hard work, and takes a lot of concentrated & very self conscious effort.

for most M to F

She’s had gender reassignment surgery.

Caitlin may not be a biological woman, but she certainly doesn’t appear to have escaped the berating of appearances that woman tirelessly face.

I think it’s always worth remembering that the fight for women’s rights isn’t personal.

Sorry littlelamp, but what do you mean by gender reassignment surgery?
If you are assuming that this surgery always (or even, often) includes a form of castration, you would be wrong.

When did that change? Online GRS still says the testicles and penis are removed and the urethra shortened to create a functional vagina that can feel sensation ??

Anyway, she wrote that she’s had the surgery as she was fed up of having to ‘tuck it in all the time’ so I’m pretty sure we all know what that means...

www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/im-celeb-star-caitlyn-jenners-20879863.amp

(There’s more sources online, this was the first one I saw)

All the other stuff mentioned in that article are included in someone saying they have had GRA.
As well as a boob job, she had a brow lift, jawbone shave, a tracheal shave and facial feminisation surgery
There are also different types of "bottom" surgery.

I think it’s always worth remembering that the fight for women’s rights isn’t personal.

Personally my XX chromosomes take all of this misappropriation and random labelling very personally, the fight for women's rights is in fact nothing but personal.

She’s had gender reassignment surgery. Nope.
Most of the time when they say this they mean breast implants and facial feminization surgery. Jenner has said many times that they are not yet ready to have genital reconfiguration surgery.

I would appreciate it if the OP would ask to have this moved to Telly addicts where celebrity praise threads belong.

do enjoy a bit of reality TV - as it can be very instructive re: the human condition

That's hilarious! You do realize that reality TV is scripted, right? That conflict is chosen and often fabricated and not organic? That heavy editing completely reenvisions any organic interactions curated for the intended audience? That they reshoot scenes like any other show?

If you think anything on reality TV is remotely genuine I have a bridge to sell you on Mars; any takers?

I watched a TV interview with Jenner yesterday - and on the topic of sport they mentioned that they thought it " should be carefully monitored" and on an " individual basis", and that they thought the "Olympic committee had it about right".

CJ is probably a huge icon in the trans world and wouldn't want to risk being cast out. They do turn on their own pretty quickly.

Tbf if I was 70 odd yr old transwoman who knew I could be photographed the second I walk out my door, I'd probably spend ages doing myself up so I could pass in the photos.
I'm a woman so I can shower and run out the door. Still obvious I'm a woman.
If I was fighting back an elderly and previously very athletic male physique with every grim surgery available, to look ,"female" I'd be grooming and slathering myself in make up too.
That's the point for Caitlyn. To pass. We're women due to our chromosomes so in 2019 we can accept/embrace or reject societal pressure/feminine "norms" or reject with impunity. Our choice. Because we have naught to prove. It's not our raison d'etre to pretty up every morning. Or not mine anyway.

That's hilarious! You do realize that reality TV is scripted, right?

Glad you found my post entertaining. It was scripted you know!

Even with partial scripting it is still possible to observe human beings, their interactions with others, their personal quirks and so on....I find it interesting, even if you don't.

Even with partial scripting it is still possible to observe human beings, their interactions with others, their personal quirks and so on....I find it interesting, even if you don't.

I know a lot of people enjoy reality TV - I just think it's funny when people use it as a window to observe the human condition.

My comments don't come from a place of assumption they come from knowing many people who work in the industry (behind the scenes not the "talent") - regular scripted shows as well as reality TV. They can take a scene that conveys one message and edit it with shots from different time periods or different conversations and make it appear to be completely different than it actually occurred. We call it "TV magic" - some of the things I've seen done through editing is mind-blowing due to the ability to completely contrive a situation to the producers' whims making the scene or situation unrecognizable from its original state.

So my point is don't believe anything you see on reality TV nor the reactions you think you're seeing from characters as they may be forced, modified, scripted, or edited to suit the intended storyline.

I only looked in for a few minutes and found myself embarrassed for her and had to turn it off.

I admire her for being true to what she believes she is but I think she's very mistaken. She seems to have has a traumatic childhood, I wonder how much that has played a part in her gender confusion.

The sad thing about TW is they desperately want to be what we natal women already are and they can never be. I wish they could find contentment but so many spew anger and venom. Very sad.

And lots of women do spend a lot of time grooming. On average, much much more than men

Yes that may be true however, if you're trans, you always believed that you were a woman, right? so surely that "urge" to groom would have always just been there anyway. Not just a light switch being flipped the minute she put a dress on, if you know what I mean? Like, (and I do like caitlyn alot) I just find her not at all like any trans person I've seen before. It seems like caitlyn was a really masculine, manly man, still does come across quite manly and when she talks about being a woman/changing to a woman, she speaks about it like a man would talk about his annoying wife and how she spends ages getting ready, type thing, i don't know if what I'm trying to say here is making any sense?

*Disclaimer, I'm a woman who takes literally 30mins to leave my house every morning, from getting out of bed, showering, dressing etc

(Haven’t read thread so apologies if already mentioned)

Why does this make you a woman. I wash and go, I don't have manicures nor do I wear make up, I do not get up early to get ready but I'm equally a woman. Why should woman equal groomed?

The jungle is the perfect place to show CJs comment up for what it is. CJ is currently surrounded by women who aren’t getting up and grooming and make-upping and shaving legs etc but they are all very obviously still women. Without all the extra work involved that CJ says is necessary.

It says it all.

So my point is don't believe anything you see on reality TV nor the reactions you think you're seeing from characters as they may be forced, modified, scripted, or edited to suit the intended storyline

I'm not naive.....

It is still possible to see and observe the character of individuals. Even scripted situations cannot disguise their essential nature. For example, your first response to my rather innocuous post, even though scripted considering the format of communication, was rather rude and abrasive. Personally, I would always seek to find a more emollient way of expressing myself - avoiding, in the first instance, making things overtly personal or hostile/sarcastic.

We're clearly all different, and no matter how many scripts there are in the world, or on reality TV, that cannot be disguised.

She seems to have has a traumatic childhood, I wonder how much that has played a part in her gender confusion

My understanding is that Jenner had been a transvestite for a life time ....before deciding to make it 'full time'. Also didn't seem to reject the masculine roles that were performed in their life at all.....in fact embraced many of them.

I'm not sure that transvestitism is the same as gender dysphoria at all. More about a fetish that takes over completely. Just finished reading Grayson Perry's memoir 'My life as a Girl'. Very candid and instructive.

My thread got deleted 😀 and also 😡