I'm loving Catilyn Jenner but..

[MissMarpletheMurderer]

I think she is funny and sassy and doesn't take herself too seriously. Her dude looks like a lady piece on IACeleb showed her humor.
However tonight she said that it's hard work becoming a women as there is so much more work (James called it women admin) and that she needs to get up an hour earlier now she is a women and can't just shower and go.
Why does this make you a woman. I wash and go, I don't have manicures nor do I wear make up, I do not get up early to get ready but I'm equally a woman. Why should woman equal groomed?

I assume that posts which get you deleted on here would be deleted on the other forums.
You are mistaken in your assumptions.
You know what they say about assume, dontcha?

There is nothing in the guidelines which say they only apply to FWR.

Are you seriously suggesting for example that referring to CJ as "he" on any other part of the forum won't be deleted?

Gamma23

Why?

Oh, and ‘interesting’ first post.

I assume...

Oh you were so sure in your pronouncing as fact that the guidelines were not unique to FWR, I was sure you knew something, rather than just assumed.

There have been updates and clarifications from MNHQ regarding the special FWR rules that you can find through search if you are interested in the facts.

Being all so called made up doesn't make you a woman. There's more to it than being made up hair or make up wise.

Well, I’m glad we agree on the hair & makeup stuff. That’s all about fitting in with social pressures & stereotypes.

Being a woman is down to age & biology.

• There is nothing in the guidelines which say they only apply to FWR.

Are you seriously suggesting for example that referring to CJ as "he" on any other part of the forum won't be deleted? *

A simple search shows numerous threads on other MN forums which indeed refer to Jenner as you mention. These have not been deleted.

"Some women spend a lot of time on grooming.
Caitlyn Jenner spends a lot of time on grooming.
Therefore Caitlyn Jenner is a woman."

That seems to be the level of philosophical argument people are expect to accept. Do you really need me to point out why it's false?

Hopefully MNHQ are now aware of the legal ruling in the Miller case and have their fingers away from the 'delete' button.

Are you seriously suggesting for example that referring to CJ as "he" on any other part of the forum won't be deleted?

This is also about the group of self/declared ‘monitors’ who, in a rather sinister fashion, have dedicated themselves to scouring FWR for posts they don’t like and then reporting them. Whether MN are still allowing them to report via Twitter I don’t know.

Note to HQ I’m not saying that the monitors themselves are sinister. I’m saying I find their stated dedication to monitoring FWR sinister.

Considering Justine*’s assurance that it’s ok to say ‘your post makes you sound like an arse’, but not ‘you’re an arse’, I’m assuming it’s ok to say ‘their behaviour makes them look sinister’ instead of ‘they are sinister’.

Jenner is all about self-promotion and attention.

Jenner's presentation seems to me to be as "womanly' as Drag Race - appropriating exaggerated performative 'feminine' traits.

A woman is age and sex descriptor, not an identity someone can opt in and out of.

As you say, not as easy if you are of masculine build.
For me, doesn't matter whether I slap make up on or not (I never do) I assume I still look female

Masculine build because male......and even if you don't look 'feminine' as a woman, you are still a woman.

I've been noticing and observing, recently, what a full time occupation being a woman is for a MTF. One slip - and it's gone!

Being all so called made up doesn't make you a woman.There's more to it than being made up hair or make up wise

Being a woman is being an adult human female. that's it. There is nothing else. All else is personality, individuality, life experience, background, social adaptation.

Dear CJ, if being a woman is such hard work then maybe it's not for you after all..just a thought.

Out for dinner with eight friends last night. I have never seen the show except for less than a minute (featuring CJ) while changing channels.

The show and CJ were a topic of discussion at dinner and everyone, EVERYONE, said how manly CJ came across in every action. Man spreading sitting position was mentioned. I repeat I have not seen this show and have no wish to, but all of my friends were appalled that this person was called a women when to them CJ so demonstrably was not. It bothers me that this may have been the first time many of these people have stumbled upon 'gender identity'. Really?? Wake up people!

So many on this thread seem surprised that CJ is coming across as a nice person with a good sense of humour. Why would that surprise anyone? Ok, some transwomen come across as very narcissistic (RK, JY, for instance), and possibly suffer from NPD. To me CJ is not a monster, just seriously autogynephilic. CJ was asked to be on the show because they are trans and it is the trendy thing to highlight at the moment, sadly. CJ is probably loving it.

And yes, I have to use initials because I did see those few seconds of the show and my female brain wasn't fooled. Because pronouns are rohypnol and I won't do that to myself.

CJ was asked to be on the show because they are trans and it is the trendy thing to highlight at the moment

How is that any different what you're saying there to when some people said in the past that programmes are "PC gawn mad" or to use the new word of "woke" if for example a black person or a disabled character was introduced?
Why shouldn't she be on the show just like anyone else?

I wonder if OP @MissMarpletheMurderer is coming back.

The OP was active on MN yesterday so wondering if they'd like to pick their thread back up?

How is that any different what you're saying there to when some people said in the past that programmes are "PC gawn mad" or to use the new word of "woke" if for example a black person or a disabled character was introduced?*

Agree.

I also find the descriptions of trans people doesnt fit my experience. I'm not denying them. But I think the fetishests are separate and exist in every single circle. When I had land I used to get fetishists asking if they could be my new pony for goodness sake. Absolute randoms who'd done enough research on me to know who visited regularly and which fields and horses were mine.

Willis you are so determined to be completely obtuse.

How is that any different what you're saying there to when some people said in the past that programmes are "PC gawn mad" or to use the new word of "woke" if for example a black person or a disabled character was introduced
Men identifying as women has absolutely fuck all to do with being black or disabled. You'll be talking about those violent Lesbians next.

Men identifying as women has absolutely fuck all to do with being black or disabled. You'll be talking about those violent Lesbians next.

This.

Willis you are so determined to be completely obtuse

Nope, just saying it is as I see it. Not trying to be obtuse at all.

Men identifying as women has absolutely fuck all to do with being black or disabled.
Way to completely miss my point.