I'm loving Catilyn Jenner but..

[MissMarpletheMurderer]

I think she is funny and sassy and doesn't take herself too seriously. Her dude looks like a lady piece on IACeleb showed her humor.
However tonight she said that it's hard work becoming a women as there is so much more work (James called it women admin) and that she needs to get up an hour earlier now she is a women and can't just shower and go.
Why does this make you a woman. I wash and go, I don't have manicures nor do I wear make up, I do not get up early to get ready but I'm equally a woman. Why should woman equal groomed?

Loved the panda analogy.

I sometimes wonder idly what such people will do when they are elderly. The plastered in make up, porn star look will be very inappropriate by then!
So will they go for a female stereotype granny look, with a perm and a twin set? Or will they persist with the (wrinkled, sagging) cleavage and micro skirts?!
Most women friends of my generation seem happy in jeans and a jumper, but that doesn't scream performative femininity.

CJ already is pretty elderly

Why do some think this is what woman is?

Its all about the hair and makeup... ffs! What a lot of clap trap.

Its all about the surface for some, still. Worrying really that people are still viewed in such shallow ways.

Bruce jenner was exceptionally vain I used to watch kuwtk so i imagine his "man admin "was just different and Caitlyn thinks that is what shehas to say I thought the rugby player was really sexist considering he is built like a brickshit house and probably in the gym half the day sorting out his man admin, saying that I don't mind Caitlyn she is coming across fine.

This is a person whose dangerous driving caused a woman's death. Why Jenner is even accepted in polite society, let alone having their make-up and clothing discussed on a feminist forum, is beyond me.

Pandas don't need to do anything to look like pandas, but when I want to go out looking like a panda I've a fair bit of work to do first.

That's the truth of the matter from @Pandaintheporridge right there.

uncommongroundmedia.com/banned-from-medium-pronouns-are-rohypnol/

I don't think a thread about how much make up Kim Kardashian's Dad wears is relevant to FWR. Maybe it should be moved to dadsnet?

Maybe it should be moved to dadsnet?

(Goes to register with Dadsnet to start a thread...)

Let the men budge up and make space

(Also Bruce/Caitlin is not Kim's Dad but I get your point).

Yes, Caitlyn is an interesting and thoughtful person........but as with all trans women it takes a lot of conscious time and effort to maintain the 'pose': the feminine mannerisms; the right tone of voice; the right body posture and way of moving etc. When momentarily unconscious, or falling back into habit, the masculine traits and mannerisms re-appear very quickly. 'Being a woman' is therefore very high maintenance.

Caitlyn, from what I can gather, had always been a transvestite - which is very much about a fetish; which develops over time and often ends up with it taking over the person's whole life. It is still a fetish though.
I'm not sure it is at all the same as gender dysphoria - in the sense of feeling that you are in the wrong body.

Just finished reading Grayson Perry's memoir of growing up 'Portrait of the Artist as a Young Girl'. Grayson is incredibly candid and honest about what drives transvestitism, and on how it can develop in some men once they get near to retirement age. Worth a read, definitely!

Being a woman is a very high maintenance activity

@OhHolyJesus

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/dadsnet

Here you are

Caitlyn is the reason I won't be watching any of this series of I'm a Celebrity

Caitlyn is the reason I am watching it. Fascinating to observe and to watch people's responses and reactions.

I just think it's bollocks ..

I'm 29 and my hair is just simple and straight - I wash it a couple of times a week and brush it before I go out. I never wear any makeup. More often than not I'm in jeans and a hoodie/top.

I've never struggled to attract men, never been single other than through choice, and even when I'm going somewhere special I don't tend to wear makeup .. because it makes my skin break out no matter what I wear, and it's not worth it.

It has never ever made me feel any less of a woman.

My XX chromosomes require very little maintenance, coffee/honey/bread and the occasional dash of vodka keep the whole system tip top.

There really is only one way to be a woman and make-up has exactly nothing to do with it
Quite.

I can't stand Caitlyn. I find her irritating and attention seeking and FOREVER going on about what do your parents think.

And as for the 'hour' getting ready why did she sit down with the lads to say that? plus if that's an hour getting ready, she needs to rethink

“I sometimes wonder idly what such people will do when they are elderly. The plastered in make up, porn star look will be very inappropriate by then! “

On holiday in Vancouver this year I saw someone who was clearly an elderly male dressed in short skirt, big wig, piles of makeup, fishnet tights, long nails and high heels. To be honest it was a sad sight.

@MyEnormousTurnip
I do mean something else. I don't want to discuss in any detail here. Caitlyn took part in a TV Documentary and that documentary was very explicit about Caitlyn's surgery.