I'm loving Catilyn Jenner but..

[MissMarpletheMurderer]

I think she is funny and sassy and doesn't take herself too seriously. Her dude looks like a lady piece on IACeleb showed her humor.
However tonight she said that it's hard work becoming a women as there is so much more work (James called it women admin) and that she needs to get up an hour earlier now she is a women and can't just shower and go.
Why does this make you a woman. I wash and go, I don't have manicures nor do I wear make up, I do not get up early to get ready but I'm equally a woman. Why should woman equal groomed?

Interesting that she has no problem deadnaming herself, constantly referring to Bruce

I’d presumed she had had a problem with Ricky Gervais’ joke at the GG but now seems more likely the TRA set were behind it

she needs to get up an hour earlier now she is a women and can't just shower and go

I must have missed that memo. I was up at 7.38 and out at 8:03 having showered, cleaned teeth etc.

Separately, I like Caitlyn too.

Ironickname
You most definitely will not get a pile on here telling you you're wrong about Caitlyn. Your comment may be deleted though.

I quite like her on on a celeb but I dont watch anything with her family in it so only based on this.

To be fair if she did just jump out of bed and run out the door that would be pretty weird considering her socail status and where she lives. Also i think she remains apt if masculine features so maybe has to think more about her grooming to soften her overall look?

Kellie Maloney for example I think looks more like she was born a woman. I imagine she could get away more with shopping at the supermarket in her pjs, no make up etc. But regardless Caitlyn leads the kind of life where woman spend time on such things. She is so far removed from reality with her lifestyle I cant feel too invested.

ironickname there is no earthly reason why you should have to make yourself believe CJ is a woman when all your senses tell you the opposite. You are doing nothing wrong, no one can make you believe what you know to be untrue. And you won’t be piled on for saying so here because many of us who frequent these FWR threads are gender critical and do not believe people can change their biological sex either.

OP, perhaps you should ask for this to be moved to the Films and Television Section?

Spending time doing your hair and make up doesn't make you a woman but for those of us women who choose to do this it is more time consuming than men who can wash and go.

I agree with @BolloxtoGender to gender. Cailtlyn will feel the need to make an effort to look more feminine by doing hair and make up as she naturally looks more masculine being born a male. I completely get what she meant and I'm sure she meant no dig at women who choose not to wear makeup and style their hair.

You’ve never observed any kind of societal pressure on women to put more effort into grooming than men do?

Goodness, your experience of life as a woman has been very different to mine.

To be fair to Caitlyn at no point have they said they're speaking on behalf on women everywhere. They're just giving their experience. Furthermore they've spent about 20 odd years living with the Kardashians; I'd bet everyone of them spends a lot longer getting ready in the morning than me. No one is saying the kardashians are more female than me (but they do look better). I've also seen threads here criticising Jenner for remaining masculine. They can't win so they might as well just do what they want really.

I agree with @NotTonightJosepheen thanks for putting that so articulately.
CJ has changed appearance to reflect the feeling that CJ’s gender is more feminine than masculine.
CJ’s sex, physique and genitalia remain male.
Yes it takes CJ longer to look feminine than when CJ was dressing as a man.
No grooming and make up have nothing to do with being a woman, it’s a gender expectation that some women buy into, some not, ime varying on how tired I am/current relationship status/situation at my workplace/whether I’m being photographed.
I’m a woman with hair up not very brushed, 2 hours into morning at work realising I’ve still got baby sick on my top.
CJ is choosing to dress like a woman, it’s not the same thing.

My DD who is 16 had had a conversation with me for the first time accepting that TWANW having been previously woke, I guess she's previously not really thought about the reality. She still feels worried about TW being at risk of violence in men's spaces, bit at least it's opened up conversation a bit more than in the past.

I won't be watching, especially if there's a focus on how womanly one can be if wearing makeup, or through fondling one's own surgically created breasts for camera (India Willoughby, Big Brother).

As we know, transwomen feel they have the right to put women in their place. Now Caitlyn has the opportunity to do that to a wider audience. Hopefully she won't, I like her better than I thought I would. Don't let me down Caitlyn!

I agree @ironickname. I quite like her, I’ll use the pronouns and name she wishes, but do I believe she’s a woman? Nah.

she is definitely more gorgeous than me and her figure is amazing.

I'll try to phrase this in an acceptable manner.

Caitlynn looks that way as Bruce paid a fortune to make it so. That Caitlynn needs an hour a day to perfect it is the ongoing price Caitlynn pays. You too could look just as 'gorgeous' and spend that much time on getting ready to go out as Caitlynn if you chose to.

Me? Nah! I'm a get up and go woman!

but for those of us women who choose to do this it is more time consuming than men who can wash and go.

Also more time consuming than women who can wash and go.

Still Spartacus.

Caitlyn still has all the appendages that Caitlyn was born with

Every article I’ve read states that Caitlin has had gender reassignment surgery. So no longer has the “appendage”. Unless you mean something else?

To be fair if she did just jump out of bed and run out the door that would be pretty weird considering her socail status and where she lives

Is this what some have come to.. How awful.

No.

Social standing does not mean makeup.
Woman does not equal makeup
Makeup is just social sterotype of how women are apparently supposed to be (but aren't)

How fucking shallow, that being a woman is about doing your hair and makeup before you go out in the morning.

It takes minutes, and as a woman I don't have to shave my face every day. I wash, and go.

When I wake up, I am a woman, no matter how fast or slowly I get out the door.

This is why this is all such nonsense.

Its very sad that any individual feels they have to perform and conform so hard to a stereotype, a social construct, just to be happy.

Why aren't people seeing how sad this is.

We've spent years as women trying to move away from ridiculous female gender stereotypes, that women do this, women do that, women wear this, or speak this way, or behave this way, walk this way, its utter bollox.

It doesn't matter what you do, you are still are woman.

This is what harmful stereotypes do isn't it, make women feel less woman if they don't conform. How stupid and damaging, in this day and age that so many sadly still live under this pressure.

Its all about the natural now. What a relief.