I'm loving Catilyn Jenner but..

[MissMarpletheMurderer]

I think she is funny and sassy and doesn't take herself too seriously. Her dude looks like a lady piece on IACeleb showed her humor.
However tonight she said that it's hard work becoming a women as there is so much more work (James called it women admin) and that she needs to get up an hour earlier now she is a women and can't just shower and go.
Why does this make you a woman. I wash and go, I don't have manicures nor do I wear make up, I do not get up early to get ready but I'm equally a woman. Why should woman equal groomed?

littlecabbage
But it's not a free 'choice' made in a vacuum. It is part of gendered socialisation, women are conditioned to know that certain grooming is womaning properly.
Not shaving legs/armpits, for example, is seen as dirty only for women
Men working in offices aren't told they look sick/unprofessional if they don't wear makeup or heels etc.

Woman = decorative, first and foremost.
A principle that CJ has spent a lot of money to worship.

I dont understand why she has a 23 year old girlfriend, does that make her a lesbian?

I think she seems nice enough.

I like her. I see her for what she is. Trans woman. Her experience is different to born women, of course, but is unique to herself.

Isn't the girlfriend also a trans woman?
I'm not liking CJ but I can't stand the Kardishians and generally dislike the overly made up/surgically enhanced look. CJ has the over confidence /self importance/arrogance that is often seen in Americans that go into UK reality TV. Perhaps the different culture but I don't like it

Her experience is different to born women, of course, but is unique to herself.

Everyone in the world has their own unique life experience. Hardly worth putting on your CV is it?

What do you mean?

ALittleBitofVitriol

I do agree with you that a lot of women "groom" due to female socialisation. I don't think I worded my post very well.

I was trying to make the point that Caitlyn thinks Caitlyn HAS to do this in order to be a woman, thus reinforcing the stereotype.

@Qcng I think she has undergone full gender reassignment. I can't say for sure as I haven't seen it 😂 but from various interviews I've watched I think she has

Hardly worth putting on your CV is it?

Maybe where you're struggling to find something under 'Hobbies'?

CJ has denied the relationship with Sophie (TW).

I dont understand why she has a 23 year old girlfriend, does that make her a lesbian?

A lesbian is a same-sex attracted adult human female, so no.

Hang on, CJ does not look good. The plastic surgery is awful. As others have said, seems fairly innoffensive, in a spoilt brat rich American way, but she does not look good, in any objective sense and she is not at all feminine, in any commonly understood way.

Both CJ and CJ's partner do not have the correct errr 'equipment' to birth a baby.

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7312371/Caitlyn-Jenner-69-wants-baby-gal-pal-Sophia-Hutchens-22-looking-surrogate.html

(Gal pal? What an awful phrase!)

Claims were called foolish by CJ in the metro a short while later but should a womb need hiring CJ can always ask Kim who may have some contacts....

abouttime2
Well, the problem is that it's always put in such twee euphamistic ways there's no real way to know.
I'm sure not going to check!

Caitlyn still has all the appendages that Caitlyn was born with.

What has this got to do with women's rights?

What has this got to do with women's rights?

Who said it has?

I think OP wanted to discuss grooming/femininity.

Which is really ignoring the elephant but hey ho.

I’m a woman who lives in jeans and t shirts, wears no make up, and just gets bathed, dressed, and out the door in the morning. I don’t have to put on “woman face” or a costume to try and act the part, and I don’t have any so called “ gender identity”. It’s still obvious that I am female.
Transgender people don’t have that option though - if they have a male body that they don’t feel comfortable in, they need a lot of grooming and maintenance to present it as a stereotypical female one instead.

I think that’s what this person was describing, which is fair enough, but they really shouldn’t extrapolate that to all actual XX women. I’m very anti make up - I see it as a con trick by the patriarchy to sell tons of overpriced gunk and make women feel ugly without it! Quite apart from the sheer waste of time plastering it on and scraping it off again every day, when we could be doing something far more productive.
I feel rather sorry for the person in a way - it’s like they’re trying too hard to gatecrash a club that is never going to accept them. Much better to start their own club, and accept the fact that they are trans, not women, and be happy in society as that. I think we’d all feel far more positive towards them if they weren’t trying to invade our sports, changing rooms etc.

The 🐼 reference on page 1 is maybe my all-time favourite MN post

What has this got to do with women's rights?

Who said it has?

This is the womens rights section

In the same way that I respect people's belief in God, but I don't believe in God iyswim

Everyone in the world has their own unique life experience. Hardly worth putting on your CV is it?

Depends on the job you're applying for?