It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

[MrsSnippyPants]

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

M and S were going down the pan before all this.

Tell me about it I have had a tab open on the computer for two weeks, searching in vain for cotton arse covering drawers, but they are all dreary.

Ah that's shameful - I'm "comfortable" using a female-only changing room M&S, yet you no longer provide that for me. Why are females so disposable? I shall definitely be shopping elsewhere from now on.

Argh, I've been doing so well staying out and I get bloody tricked back onto the board via active threads

I thought by the title it meant they were going out of business or something, came to have a look!
But nope, it's hyperbolic language to get people frothing on a trans issues thread.

slashlover so you really think that we - humans - cannot tell the difference between male and female people? Really? And you also think that butch women are men? Wow.

Have you ever actually met a trans person in real life?

Why can’t they just offer a few lockable mixed sex changing rooms, then keep the rest segregated by sex? What is wring with retailers and why are they so willing to alienate their female customer base?

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis

Why do you think that males who don't want to change with other males because they are 'uncomfortable' should be listened to and accommodated for at all costs, but women who don't want to change with other males are 'hyperbolic' and should fuck off home?

Still waiting for @slashlover 's definition of' trans'

It’s not trans issues

It’s the fact that any guy can go into the women’s changing rooms

Any man

*wrong, not wring

Oh FFS no! Where will I get my colin's from now?! can someone please write a list of company's I don't have to boycott- I think it will be a shorter list at this point!

I went into Primark the other day and wanted to try on some clothes. As the woman handed me the card to show how many items of clothing I had, she said, "just to let you know these are gender neutral changing rooms". I was a bit taken aback and I asked her if there was a private room I could use. There wasn't. I went into a cubicle and left after trying on just a cardigan. I didn't want to strip to my underwear to try on the other stuff.

I was pissed off and a bit embarrassed because when I'd asked if there was a private room she had sort of laughed and said that they have curtains (yeah you do, and they're the type that don't close properly!). I have mobility issues and use a walking stick, and am pretty clumsy when trying on clothes. It's something I prefer to have a bit more privacy around. I've been sexually abused in my past and I actually don't like to take many risks where I feel uncomfortable/exposed with my body and I just felt so uncomfortable.

Yeah tulip. Agree

The last thing I need is the hassle of trying things on at home and taking them back. Much easier just not to bother shopping there. Why is it ok to force women out like this?

Had M&S explained how the shop assistants will be trained to distinguish between a man who feels like a woman that day and a man who is a perv? Do they realise that being a trans woman does not mean wearing women's clothing? Or having long(er) hair, breasts or makeup? Are they going to actively discriminate between trans women who present as female and trans women who present as male?!! That would be transphobic, surely?

I can’t help but feel this is a Pyrrhic victory as now female spaces are effectively eradicated what’s the point of any trans individual wanting to access them? They have gone from women’s spaces to just.... rooms basically.

So much of this seems to be about group A wanting to be part of group B, but in order to accomplish this the definition and identity of group B must be eradicated. I mean in a world of Male uteruses and Female penises we have destroyed conceptually the very thing a trans person seeks to identify as in the first place.

Now we have gone so far down this rabbit hole that now only people can be said to exist. Male/Female no longer exist under this paradigm. Logically the only motivation I can see is “I wish I was the opposite gender, but seeing as I can’t be I’ll destroy the whole concept of gender so nobody gets to be that.” It’s a classic catch 22.

Slash yes I have. Not sure what your point is here but I suspect derailing.

Men should not be invited/allowed in to women's safe spaces in this way. M&S should be ashamed. I have emailed their CEO.

Nothing's stopping you visiting the shop, but if you're that fussy about changing rooms or find them awkward with toddlers just take the items home and try them on."

So why aren't the male-bodied who feel uncomfortable in the men's changing room being given this same message?

This, And of course literally any bloke Trans or “ just pretending because he fancies it” can say he wants to use them.

How do you feel about gay women getting sexual kicks from being there?

Please, PLEASE look at crime stats before comparing lesbian women with heterosexual men.

How do you feel about gay women getting sexual kicks from being there?

Such disgusting homophobia. I hope that you are ashamed Beveren.

All these people who think that most trans people don't commit sexual crimes, ok I'll go with that, but tell me, please, why men and women are segregated for changing and toilets when most men don't commit sexual crimes either.

How do you feel about gay women getting sexual kicks from being there?

Well, given that 98% of sexual crime is carried out by men, I'm not that bothered tbh, because it's almost definitely not happening. Nice bit of homophobia making out lesbians to be sexual predators though.

but tell me, please, why men and women are segregated for changing and toilets when most men don't commit sexual crimes either.

Exactly. My DH is a wonderful man who I know is not a danger to women. Do I think he should be allowed in the female changing rooms? Of course not.

How do you feel about gay women getting sexual kicks from being there?

That's just not a thing and sounds really like homophobia.

Yes yes as I said, us non-straight women are EXACTLY like pervy men and a real danger to other women. Everyone knows that

So genuine question, not wishing to be goady but if I was a biological man presenting as a woman and, inspired by the brave and stunning Yaniv, wanted a fitting for a bra in the lovely inclusive M & S changing rooms, could a female fitter refuse this intimate act?

This would make me highly uncomfortable - I'm guessing my feelings make me not inclusive