It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

[MrsSnippyPants]

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

No one is bothered about any women in women's changing rooms.

It is men being allowed into women's changing rooms people are complaining about.

You know,, bog standard XY people regardless of whether or not they believe in 'gender identities'.

I don't shop in M&S anyway so it doesn't effect me but I can still manage to have empathy for those who do wish to shop there.

Last time I looked, our M&S only had curtains and not lockable doors. If I were to see a man in there I would probably kick off tbh

Absolutely no way I would have been comfortable being fitted for first bras as an 11 yr old if I saw an obvious male going in first. It's awkward enough in an all female environment.
And what about the women who are not able to be in that sort of close quarters with undressed males who didn't get the MN memo? Somehow doubt they will be putting large signs saying mixed sex fitting rooms on the door.
And what about the inevitable blokes with phone cameras over the top of the partitions? I don't suppose they will be sparing a staff member to watch at all times for hands creeping over the walls.

As with all these things, if male going into women's space is no longer allowed to be the point you can raise a red flag, the next option is wait till someone has been assaulted/disturbed/spied on. Not good enough M&S.

And yes I will be reluctant to go in for my lunch knowing this is a company who have let down girls and vulnerable women like that.

That's why for a long time there have been women only spaces. Because enough men are pervs that they cause women an issue.

I never said women should stay home.

As many have said, there are lockable cubicle doors so I really don't see the issue here.

If you're saying the issue is for people who have buggies then surely that can apply equally to men and women.

I do think it is fussy to be getting paranoid about who is on the other side of a lockable door.

There are some real issues around gender identity. I just don't happen to think this is one of them.

When women speak they are hysterical paranoids ?

So you're all worried about a man pretending to be trans to get sexual kicks by maybe, perhaps catching a flash of skin through a tiny gap in a door?

He wont have to pretend to be trans, will he? It is mixed sex. Mixed sex facilities are more dangerous for women, voyeurs (who are all bloody men actually) can put cameras in easily or just have a wank in the cubicle next to you.

Think about why we have single sex provision for women first before getting rid of it.

And yes, pervs are bloody mostly ALWAYS men. Look at the stats.

Women who are hysterically paranoid can go home to try on items.

'Hysterically paranoid'.... Nice.

So you're all worried about a man pretending to be trans to get sexual kicks by maybe, perhaps catching a flash of skin through a tiny gap in a door?

You wouldn't have to 'pretend to be trans' would you? If it's 'whatever changing room you feel comfortable with' then any bloke can use the women's changing rooms and if challenged claim that the women's 'is the changing room they feel most comfortable with'. No 'pretending to be trans' necessary.

And if you think that certain men won't exploit this sort of culture in order to perv then you are seriously naive. Think about the steps men go to to gain access to vulnerable people, some choose their entire career on it!

I was actually in an M&S changing room this morning. Next door to the curtained one. Fab.

Those saying “but the vast majority of transwomen aren’t dangerous” are missing the point. TW may not be a threat to women but if any man can selfID as a woman and go in the changing room where children, elderly, disabled and potentially vulnerable females are changing (some behind a pull curtain), it puts them at unnecessary risk. Or it just might make them feel very uncomfortable, or threatened due to past experiences or worries.

LochJessMonster

No. Men who wish to use the changing facilities can use the mens.

Women should use the womens, NOT go home.

So I was thinking of taking my dd to marks to see if she needs a bra yet. She’s not even 9 yet. I would not feel comfortable with men being in the changing rooms next to us. Don’t care what they are or who they are.

Women’s rights are being eroded left, right and centre. Soon there will be very little just left for us. That’s ok though because we’re only little women

Man who doesn't want to get changed near other men = stunning and brave, we all need to do everything we can to accommodate.

Woman who doesn't want to get changed near other men = hysterically paranoid.

Jesus, the misogyny, I can't even....

See my point about trying on stuff at home

So instead of going into a shop and trying something on, you're suggesting that we should go into town, buy an item, bring it all the way home, try it on and then, if it's not right, go all the way back into town, go back to the shop, go to customer services and explain that the item isn't right and get a refund? And then repeat with the next item? Do you seriously believe that's a sensible and convenient way to buy clothing?

I know Peter, it is really getting to me today.

If it's 'whatever changing room you feel comfortable with' then any bloke can use the women's changing rooms and if challenged claim that the women's 'is the changing room they feel most comfortable with'. No 'pretending to be trans' necessary.

So whilst a minority are getting comfortable in their chosen changing room , for everyone else it is the changing room they feel the least uncomfortable in or take it home.

If you are going down the 'lesbians might be perving at you ya know'
Road then

1) that is incredibly homophobic

So is the trans might be perving on you ya know not incredibly transphobic? Hun?

This is just another on the list of "X person in your space with mean Y"

Guys don’t have to say anything at all

They can just go into the women’s changing rooms

This is not about trans at all

It’s about women’s spaces

As a pp said, this distracts from bigger issues.

No it doesn't. THIS IS THE ISSUE, it's all the same. Women are being ignored and our rights are being taken away because of a few vocal men.

A Canadian library will no longer allow women to meet to discuss women's issues because a man complained. Waitrose said the definition of a woman was 'hate speech' because a man complained.

A barrister is being investigated because one man complained.

The voice of a single man is now more important than the voices of all women.

Also transwomen who have not transitioned feel more safe with women because of male violence towards them. Again a problem created by men and being pushed onto women.

Won't bother me. It's not as if they have communal changing rooms, like some shops do. There are better things to get worked up about IMO.

"Women who are hysterically paranoid can go home to try on items."

Wow.

Exactly sassh and Humphrey

So is the trans might be perving on you ya know not incredibly transphobic? Hun?

It's not 'trans might be perving on you' - it's 'male might be perving on you'. Considering that 98% of sexual offences are carried out by males.

What is your definition of 'trans' please? At what point does a male who 'identifies as female' come out of the high risk category of male and go into the very low risk category of female. Surgery? Hormones? A dress? Long hair?

Or is it just on his say so, that he identifies as female?

And if it is the lady one (which seems to be M and S's definition) then can you really not see how that might be abused?