It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

[MrsSnippyPants]

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

Getting Bickerin's post deleted was definitely a tra own goal. It's now being shared all over FB and Twitter. wine

Some people never, ever learn. I find it an extraordinary characteristic of misogynists.

They would rather limit their own campaigns against women, in order to shut them up on a small, temporary basis.

It's not just the very definition of the word petty, it's completely unsuccessful.

Every single time they try and censor a woman, what that particular woman has said proliferates throughout the stratosphere.

Every. Single. Time.

Excellent letter, OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg

I'd also love to know whether they had informed their liability insurance provider that they are putting customers at increased risk and whether they were aware that they could be found to be facilitating the harassment of customers.

From the Equality Act, Section 26

Harassment

(1)A person (A) harasses another (B) if—

(a)A engages in unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic, and
(b)the conduct has the purpose or effect of—

(i)violating B's dignity, or
(ii)creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for B.

(2)A also harasses B if—

(a)A engages in unwanted conduct of a sexual nature, and
(b)the conduct has the purpose or effect referred to in subsection (1)(b).

(4)In deciding whether conduct has the effect referred to in subsection (1)(b), each of the following must be taken into account—

(a)the perception of B;
(b)the other circumstances of the case;
(c)whether it is reasonable for the conduct to have that effect.

In deliberately creating circumstances that increase the chances of a female customer or staff member being harassed by a male, in my view it could be argued that M&S is facilitating harassment.

I’ve had a generic email from Lauren.

Dear Silencedwitness,

Thank you for taking the time to contact Steve Rowe. As a member of the Executive Team, I am responding on his behalf.

I would like to assure you, All M&S fitting rooms have lockable cubicles designed to protect each customer’s privacy. As a business, we strive to be inclusive and therefore, we allow customers the choice of which fitting room they feel comfortable to use, in respect of how they identify themselves. This is an approach other retailers and leisure facilities have also adopted.

We understand your concerns and I want to make it clear that if any customer was to act inappropriately or cause intentional offence, the necessary action would be taken.

Thank you again for emailing Steve.
Kind regards

Lauren Harvey

It's another Flora, really. I'd happily boycott M & S but their food is all sugary crap, and their clothes are poor fitting, and low quality.

Part of me wonders if someone is trying to crash M&S into a wall for some reason.

@OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg excellent reply. Don’t suppose you’d mind me using it.

I’m off to my M&S on Monday when it’s quieter. It’s big one 4 floors in London. Unless they have changed it the disabled room doesn’t have a lockable door at all. So I shall then be free to email with photo evidence to say other wise.

Let’s see them auto reply to that

I live in Cairo.

I use our local M&S occasionally for school trousers for dd1 (uniform shop ones are badly cut & poor quality; the ones she likes from a different retailer are periodically deemed too tight around the ankles when senior management are on a uniform rampage) & bras for both teenage dds.

I'm quite confident there'll be absolutely none of this unisex fitting room nonsense here!

However I prefer to do the considerable bulk of my M&S shopping, except in emergencies, when I visit the uk (massive import mark up here).

So screw 'em. My daughters do not wish to try on trousers or underwear in front of men, & I will be fully supporting their right not to.

May also write to our local head office to see what they think. Suspect they will not be on board with this policy.

@Jon6b
I've reported your post, it's considered to be very goady on here if you try to derail a thread with food related posts.

This is an approach other retailers and leisure facilities have also adopted.

Poor old M&S must be wondering why they're the ones making news...
Well, I guess some of it is because
A) we'd hoped better of them
B) the demographics of their customers
C) being one of the few places on the high street - sometimes the only one - which offers a bra fitting service
D) because yes, other retailers etc have 'adopted this approach' - and women don't like it. And if you didn't realise that then they're clearly not paying any attention to women's concerns.

I not believe that trans males get harassed and feel scared in the men’s changing room .

I've reported your post, it's considered to be very goady on here if you try to derail a thread with food related posts.

It's a post about M&S products and replacements on a thread about M&S.

Actually - can anyone suggest somewhere better for measuring teenage girls for bras?

Personally, I live in crop top/sports bras & buy them from supermarkets, & if I wanted a posh fancy bra I'd go to Bravissimo or Rigby & Peller, but if you've got rapidly developing teens who need new bras every 6 months, where's good for sensibly priced girls' underwear that'll be grown out of long before it would otherwise need replacing?

Silent witness, there are twos logic failures,in their reply?

They are on the one hand private facilities that no one should have any fears over using. That would argue that all facilities are totally equal and safe hence no one should worry about using any of them so there is no need for a male to use the female facility as the male facilities are totally safe?

they accept that some people would rather use ones associated with the other sex. Yet the other sex ( women) is therefore not allowed the option to use the one associated with their sex because it doesn't exist.

Brain hurts

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost

It almost feels a safer place to change as only normal men will be using them.

I'd feel a bit bad about making the decent blokes uncomfortable but this is true, and it's true of toilets also. When the policy allows men to enter women's spaces the decent blokes still won't, because they're decent people and have consideration for other people's feelings. Every time I've discussed this with DH or my dad they've been horrified by the idea of going into women's spaces and said if they did so accidentally they'd back out with a hand over their eyes, apologizing. So if these incredibly stupid policies are pushed through then men's spaces will be much safer for women than the former women's spaces, because the men left in them will be the ones who actually care about our feelings, while the ones who don't will be having the time of their lives in the former women's spaces.

It's like ringing the dinner bell for predators. How can any company be that bloody stupid? They're not even saying "trans people are welcome to use the space they prefer", they're saying everyone is. Which space do they think predatory men will prefer, the one they've traditionally been confined to or the one full of potential victims?

while the ones who don't will be having the time of their lives in the former women's spaces.

They can whoop it up with the likes of Mhairi Black in her T shirt and all the other woke women who I'm sure will be delighted to have them there.

I was struck my the post from the women using M&S in Cairo who thought it unlikely that there would be unisex changing rooms there - perhaps we should be asking why M&S would adopt a different policy here?

I’m off to my M&S on Monday when it’s quieter. It’s big one 4 floors in London. Unless they have changed it the disabled room doesn’t have a lockable door at all. So I shall then be free to email with photo evidence to say other wise.

Don't just email the photo to them, post it on Twitter and FB and every other social media platform you can think of. Post it here too, so other women can use it in their emails to M&S. In fact, how about tweeting the evidence of non lockable cubicles to Janis Turner, James Kirkup, Ricky Gervais, and Piers Morgan? Since they have bigger platforms than any of us and have already demonstrated an interest.

They are actively and consciously lying to customers about their fitting rooms and how they're set up and deserve to have their noses publicly rubbed in that fact.

@PurpleCrowbar
Actually - can anyone suggest somewhere better for measuring teenage girls for bras?

John Lewis or Debenhams, I've used both in the past for bra fittings. I haven't heard anything on their changing room policy, but I may have missed something.

Open invitation; if anyone would like anything pertaining to selfID and the removal of women and girls’ rights to single sex spaces, including photos of dodgy changing room curtains etc. then feel free to DM me and I will ensure your concerns are shared anonymously via the sm accounts of sympathetic women’s groups.

Thanks @Jantolee - will try those!

I'm happy to find out if this policy applies in the ME @PaleBlueMoonlight.

I'm confident that the response will be that it doesn't, though.

& yes, one possible line of attack there - why aren't Muslim women in the UK afforded the same respect?

That would actually be the perfect test case in terms of pushing back against this nonsense. Religion is a protected category, yes? Observant Muslim and Jewish Orthodox women cannot possibly be expected to share fitting rooms with men. If unisex fitting rooms become the norm how are they supposed to buy clothes? And no, person who suggested this earlier in the thread, buying everything you think might work and then returning the pieces that don't is not an option unless you are absolutely stonking rich.

I was going to post the question as to whether M&S will change their policy when M&S sissification stories about the lingerie department start being posted by men on the internet. Of course they already exist. Quite disgusting but maybe if M&S read this thread they'll see who they are enablng:

M&S Panty Shopping

M&S have my favourite high waist panties. I ordered two multi-packs (five panties in each pack) and three panties from a 3 for 2 offer. I usually buy my female clothes in person but decided to order online this time. That might seem like I am trying to avoid the required levels of sissy embarrassment – quite the opposite.

When you order online M&S have the option to add a “gift message”. I decided that I should put a nice sissy message with my order. I had no idea if this would show on the outside of the order or who would see it.

After a bit of thought and some suggestions I typed the following as my gift message

<strong>Dear Heather (aka [my male name]!), I hope you enjoy your new panties I ordered with your card. They’ll feel fab with your new dress and heels! It’s great that you’re in female underwear 24/7 now! Kisses, your ex-wife.</strong>

I felt kind of scared when I got the order summary back (which I had to bring with me to collect my order). It had my full name and address and the list of the panties I bought. And, in quite a big font, it had my message.

I went to collect my package today. I presumed it would be from the lingerie department. But I realised that I had to collect it from a separate collection point. Imagine my horrot when, instead of a female lingerie assistant serving me there were two men at the cashdesk! Not only were they men but they were about my age and talking about football. I felt my little sissy heart sink. I walked away. I was too scared. I went and did some more shopping and decided to come back later.

I went to the lingerie section and bought a white soft body. It felt lovely and looked super girly. The saleslady was in her late forties and had impeccable makeup. If only she was at the other desk! She gave a delicious smirk and full eye contact as she handed me my lingerie.

So I went back about three hours later. At least there were more people around. This time there was a pretty blonde but she was helping one of the male assistants with a package. The other male assistant was still there. I walked away but realised that I had to get my panties. I wanted them so much. The embarrassment I would feel was simply a natural and inevitable consequence of being a femboy.
My 3 for 2 panties were €8 each. The soft pink panties will be especially girly.
I didn't realise my message would also be printed out on a card!

So I joined the queue and thankfully a female saleslady appeared and served me. I handed over my order printout and ID. She went to collect my pack. It took her longer than I expected. I wondered if she would see my message. When she came back with the pack she gave me a big smile. I’m not sure if she was just friendly or if she was smirking at the thought of my ex-wife making me wear panties 24/7.

The men didn't have to be forced to be unwilling props in his AGP fantasies, just his ex-wife and the M&S sales assistants.

sissifiedprincess.wordpress.com/2016/12/04/ms-panty-shopping/

I bet this gentleman feels "comfortable" in the M&S lingerie changing rooms. What are you thinking of M&S?

If MNHQ could provide us with a projectile vomiting smiley it would come in awfully handy.

I feel really bad about posting that but why should we be silent about what M&S and other organisations are expecting women to deal with.

Everybody knows about men who go into lingerie shops to get sexual kicks by getting the assistants to help them. Why are M&S pretending this doesn't happen. They should be thrown out of the shop for the sake of the safety and dignity of their female staff and customers, instead they're being catered to.