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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

1000 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 31/10/2019 13:30

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen
OP posts:
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6
Jux · 02/11/2019 17:20

I've seen Bickerin's post on fb. Well said, BickerinBrattle, very, very well said.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 02/11/2019 17:20

Just off to do my food shopping at M & S to show my support for their progressive attitude :-)

I hope you have a lot of money to spend, M&S isn't cheap.

Mummyoflittledragon · 02/11/2019 17:23

.... And you’ll need to have a big bank balance to cover the short fall left by their former customers.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 02/11/2019 17:32

Maybe they can extend to the M&S S&M range of products to supply new customers.

Jon6b · 02/11/2019 17:37

Got some lovely Moroccan dates and lamb to go with the rosemary growing in the garden plus one of their raspberry jellies, and some cheesecake for my other half for dessert. And some prosecco to celebrate with Smile. Also found some super English muffins and dry cured bacon for eggs benedict for breakfast. M n S bacon is very good. None of the watery stuff you get in most supermarkets.

Jux · 02/11/2019 17:38

I don't really understand this: if locked cubicles are good enough to keep women safe from men in women's changing rooms, why are lockd cubicles not sufficient to keep TW safe from men n men's changing rooms?

Of course, I do understand, but have M&S got an answer to that? Then all they'd need to do is install lockable cubicles in the men's - if they don't already have them.

YourOpinionIsNoted · 02/11/2019 17:40

Enjoy your dinner Jon. And note how no-one is telling you to die in a grease fire for disagreeing with them.

realitycalling · 02/11/2019 17:42

M & S head office are working today sending out sorry but not sorry emails, doubling down on their decision. Hopefully for them the Jon's of the world have huge families to feed and clothe because hell will freeze over before I reinstate our account while they maintain this attitude.
It's been a bit of a wake up call looking at how much we have spent with them in the last year (looked at the statements earlier) If I add spending on the account plus the coffees, quick shops at the station Simply Food plus the Christmas treats - food, crackers, charity cards, scented candles, decorations, gifts, clothes - it's far too much Blush

Fortunately there are so many alternatives to M & S - it will be a pleasure to see what's out there.

thirdfiddle · 02/11/2019 17:46

That's not much shopping jonb, I hope you got something for the rest of the week too. M&S was more work lunches for me but plenty of other nice options.

Oliversmumsarmy · 02/11/2019 17:47

I would boycott M&S but I never use them.

The clothes anytime I go to have a browse are awful and I think I am the only person who doesn’t like their food.

You could line up a row of ready meals and I think I could pick out most of the M&S ones just on their smell and taste would just confirm it

I should say I have a nose like a blood hound.

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg · 02/11/2019 17:49

I got this response to my original email, asking for sight of their risk and equality impact assessments and how this is 'inclusive' for women of other faiths, survivors of sexual violence etc.

Thank you for your email about our fitting room policy.

I would like to assure you all M&S fitting rooms have lockable cubicles designed to protect each customer’s privacy. As a business, we strive to be inclusive and therefore, we allow customers the choice of which fitting room they feel comfortable to use, in respect of how they identify themselves. This is an approach other retailers and leisure facilities have also adopted.

I am afraid we do not make internal documents relating to our policies and procedures available, however we understand your concerns and I want to make it clear that if any customer was to act inappropriately or cause intentional offence, the necessary action would be taken.

Thank you again for taking the time to get in touch.

Kind regards

Alison Round
Executive Team
Your M&S Customer Service

So this is my follow up:

"Dear Ms Round,

Thank you for your response. Unfortunately it is wholly unsatisfactory, and so I would be grateful if you could expand upon it.

  1. Can you confirm the date when you refitted all changing rooms across the whole M&S estate with a) the lockable doors to which you refer, as I have been in several stores recently where the disabled changing cubicle had only a curtain and b) full floor to ceiling walls to prevent any kind of voyeurism from taking place.

  2. Your reference to being 'inclusive' seems to overlook the specific question I asked in my original email so I will repeat it and I would be grateful if you could answer it with a more considered response than a PR soundbite. How does this nod to 'inclusion' square with the needs of women of other faiths, survivors of sexual assault or young girls having their first bra fittings, many of whom may feel unable to undress in a cubicle next to a man?

  3. This leads directly onto my next point. You claim this move is to make customers 'comfortable' in choosing a changing room. Where can women who are decidedly uncomfortable with the possibility of male people changing next to them go to try on clothes in your stores, either for the reasons listed above or simply because they don't wish to place themselves in a vulnerable position? Can you advise whereabouts in your policy our comfort been taken into consideration?

  4. You refer to other retailers and leisure facilities adopting this measure, which is very salient.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Can you confirm that your risk assessment and equality impact assessment both took into account the above evidence that assaults and incidences of voyeurism increase in mixed sex changing rooms? If you are unable to share the documents themselves, please quote the relevant scores from your risk assessment matrix and the specific mitigations you have put in place to minimise the associated risks. How many additional staff are being employed to staff your changing rooms? What additional training will they have to equip them to take the 'necessary action'?

  1. On that point, why do you feel an offence have to be caused or 'inappropriate behaviour' take place before M&S will step in? Why are you no longer taking the legal, proportionate step of retaining sex segregated spaces to prevent women and girls being placed at risk of increased harm?

  2. Can you confirm that you are indeed aware that while a) sex and b) gender reassignment are protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010, gender identity is not. Assuming you can confirm your awareness of this fact, can you advise why you felt entitled to override the legality of providing sex segregated changing rooms?

  3. Could you advise which organisation has provided or been consulted to inform your staff's equality awareness training?

I look forward to your considered response in the near future."

MrGsFancyNewVagina · 02/11/2019 17:53

That’s an amazing response from you, OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg. I imagine you will either get no response or a three lines pat on the head, response.

Datun · 02/11/2019 17:56

Fantastic ^only*. Please publish their response here, and on twitter.

YourOpinionIsNoted · 02/11/2019 17:57

Got the exact same response from Gary Bragg, executive team. So head office have clearly created a catch all reply.

I don't have time to follow up right now as am in the dinner making / dog walking / kids bedtime crazy hours, but I will be getting back to Gary about the inadequate stock response tonight.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 02/11/2019 17:58

Cracking follow up Iceberg, look forward to their response. They need to drop the soundbites and explain why they have abandoned safeguarding in order to include some unhappy males in the female dressing rooms.

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg · 02/11/2019 17:59

I'm assuming no response MrG, as I suspect it will be filed on the 'too hard' pile.

Overthisnonsensedotcom · 02/11/2019 18:01

Got the exact same response. Others can make points about legal case far better than I. My response has simply been on the commercial case, per below.

Your response does not answer my question. Do you have a female only changing facility?

You want to make it clear to me that if any customer were to act inappropriately or cause intentional offence, the necessary action would be taken. What kind of nonsensical word soup is that? What on earth does that mean? The only necessary action is to provide female only changing facilities.

This question has a yes or no answer. If you do not have female only changing facilities, M&S chooses not to allow me and my daughter a choice of a fitting room we feel comfortable to use. And if so, my family will choose not to spend our money on M&S lingerie, clothing, homewares and lots and lots of food.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

starlingsintheslipstream · 02/11/2019 18:02

Some really well constructed emails from posters - you're all far more tenacious than me. I just dropped them a quick email to let them know I'd be collecting my click and collect order tomorrow but then would no longer be shopping with them. This is the order that was supposed to be in store on the 18th of October but has only just rocked up Confused. And they wonder why profits are down. I also pointed out that for every email they receive there are many other customers that will just quietly stop buying from them. I'm sure Jon's weekly shop will more than make up for it though....

VickyEadieofThigh · 02/11/2019 18:03

Follow-up letters (or first ones, for those who haven't sent one already) should - as examples some of us have offered do - demand answers relating to the safeguarding of women and girls.

Their insurers might well be very interested to hear that M & S's safeguarding policy consists of 'take action in each case after women are assaulted'.

Lamahaha · 02/11/2019 18:07

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3731834-Its-official-Marks-and-Spencer-have-fallen

Getting Bickerin's post deleted was definitely a tra own goal. It's now being shared all over FB and Twitter. Wine

SchadenfiendeUnmortified · 02/11/2019 18:08

Can you fit that on a sticker I wonder...?

You could fit it on a tee-shirt.

Lamahaha · 02/11/2019 18:11

^^I meant to quote this: *I've seen Bickerin's post on fb. Well said, BickerinBrattle, very, very well said.,

Also only's response is fantastic. I used to shop at M&S when I lived in the UK and would have loved to boycott it but all I can do now is applaud you resisters. Make our voice heard! Ignore us at your peril, you woke businesses because we are a growing tribe.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 02/11/2019 18:12

M and S desserts in particular are disgusting - over sugared and tasteless.

That AIBU thing about 'M and S only exists to keep the riff raff out of Waitrose' has always made me smirk. -Especially since I am riff raff--

NumbersStation · 02/11/2019 18:18

@MrsSnippyPants

Please could you send me the post?

Thank you.

Wonder if any of the men who may turn up for bra fitting would fancy their moobs crushed in a mammogram machine first? No? Thought not.

NumbersStation · 02/11/2019 18:20

And I’d be happy for a Waitrose. But our nearest one is many miles away. The buggers.

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