I Believe Her

[Brittany2019]

This is disappointing :

Have you seen any of the stuff Charlie Evans, recently detransitioned woman who formerly IDd as a transman, has written, midcenturylegs? She's quite young so her experiences may not be a mile off from whatever is happening at DDs school.

Fucking hell. If FrothyDragon tells this person to STFU maybe they will.

Posting abusive porno-speak on a thread about a group for rape survivors. Awful.

Even on a thread where most are being fairly critical of her decisions I'm almost certain FrothyDragon can find better supporters than that.

Best to ignore the Deeply Unpleasant.

Frothy I know you must deal with misogynistic creeps all the time - solidarity to you 💚💜

Don’t take the bait, sisters.

Some people take an odd pleasure in being told off.

Don’t give it to them.

Indeed, some people simply don't deserve any further attention. If Frothy were to return then I'd be happy to talk to her, and that's because I still have some faith that her heart's in the right place even if I think she's made bad decisions.

2B

They do indeed....

Ah yes I remember the I believe her page. It was set up back in the day when the MN feminist board discussed other issues. Now every thread is a trans one 
I spent many an evening arguing with Ched supporters on twitter at the time.
Take care @FrothyDragon I think you come from a good place x

PowerFlowerrr, I must say I certainly hadn't heard the definition of "railed" that you proposed before today. I did google out of curiosity, but it's certainly not in common lexicon (Urban Dictionary hosts a whole load of misogynistic terms that others may not have heard of) Ergo, when other women have accused me of railing against women, it's not - in any way - in the manner you described. Had I felt, at any point, that anyone had given a misogynistic response to me, I would have called it out.

I'm not sure what happened in your deleted comment, but given the replies, I am concerned. Do we really have to resort to misogyny throughout these comments? Attacks of any sort?

Whilst I appreciate the support, I do not appreciate attacks on other women to do so.

*I'm giving you benefit of the doubt for some other things, but please. Criticism is not an attack, as difficult as it may be to read. Neither is calling out someone's problematic language.

From seeing the conversation upthread that it was by a transwoman, no actually it was a woman-woman, was "terfs are garbage" posted by the enby mumsnetter?

No, it wasn't.

Personally, following the post by IBH in the op, I unfollowed quietly. And for a very similar reason to the "get fucked" upthread - one too many comments using both "fuck" and "terf" in the comments. Gotta love an alleged form of feminism that thinks any woman deserves not to have support when she is raped.

Thank you for reporting that comment, whoever did. Normally I'm in favor of letting pretty much any comment stand but on a thread specifically focused around rape victims and how to create an environment that feels safe for them that really wasn't on.

Thanks for the answer frothy. And to be clear, I'm talking about the commenters in my post there ^ not you.

I reported it. It was the verbal equivalent of plastering the thread in porn.

It’s so bizarre that a rape survivor site - of all places (!!) - is a place where “fuck T**Fs” and other choice phrases would appear in the first place

Frothy,

What happened was that I was accused of deliberately using a double entendre with the phrase "get fucked", which was absolutely not my intention. Yes, it was a bit of a uncouth phrase but really no more offensive than telling somebody to "fuck off". The context was "she should tell them to get fucked and do what she wants" which is to most people a pretty self explanatory statement.

To highlight how easy it is to make ridiculous interpretations of people's chosen language, I said that you could equally construe the word "railed" (which another poster used) as being as much of a double entendre as "get fucked".

What is actually happening in the world of reality is that posters are predictably attempting to call my character into question because they don't like the fact I'm disagreeing with them. I'm not going to post any more on this thread as I don't think it's going anywhere but I hope you don't feel obliged to offer an 'apology to them'. The conversation seems to be going in the rather weasely direction of "Frothy seems to know she was wrong, so maybe there is something to work with" (i.e. maybe we can bully/coerce her into agreeing with us).

And maybe if we don't want to trigger potential rape survivors it might be an idea for GC feminists to stop talking so much about "penises" and "lady dicks". It's extremely hypocritical.

I am not offering an apology to anyone. I've been under careful consideration this morning, and no. Women standing their ground and stating their beliefs is not "bullying". Karabair has rightfully been standing up for what she believes. Lord knows I've done so enough times. This discussion wouldn't be here if I hadn't done so.

"Get fucked" has clear connotations. Whether you meant it in the way Karabair read it or not is not the point. Karabair understood it, as did many others, in a clear manner. We need to consider the language that we use and the harm it may do, especially in a thread where discussions about rape are already happening.

I don't know you. I don't know your intentions. But either listen to what other women are saying about how your language harms them or remove yourself from the conversation. This isn't on. It's downright abusive, and shouldn't be done under the guise of support for me.

I might have been emotional yesterday, but I'm damned well capable of defending myself, without resorting to language that harms.

How on earth are rape survivors supposed to talk about rape without mentioning penises? That's the very nature of rape.

And maybe if we don't want to trigger potential rape survivors it might be an idea for GC feminists to stop talking so much about "penises" and "lady dicks". It's extremely hypocritical.

How is discussion of rape going to happen without the word Penis?

The deleted comment was atrocious. Awful in any context, let alone a thread about a rape support site.

Frothy I agree with others, you have every right to run the page exactly as you want, even if it excludes some women here. It’s just the link to the MN campaign though.

x-post

On another note, women attempting to reach out to each other and say that even if they think someone has made what they consider to be a bad decision that doesn't mean that they're writing her off forever and casting her into the wilderness is not "weasely". It's feminism, and female solidarity, both of which are apparently confusing for some people.