I Believe Her

[Brittany2019]

This is disappointing :

[FrothyDragon]

Thanks, @GColdtimer, I'll take a look at it some point next week. (Hopefully sooner rather than later, vision's still a bit blurry in my right eye).

[GColdtimer]

@FrothyDragon better late than never Fovas. Well worth looking at survivor stories about Male feee soaces.

[Birdsfoottrefoil]

Having been involved with a minor sex crime case I can totally understand why a victim may not go to the police and through court and if my daughter was raped or assaulted I would now have to think carefully what I would advise her to do.

[VictoriaSpongeAndTea]

I ws raped a long time ago, trans wasn't commonplace but my rapist cross dressed I didn't seek help because I couldn't talk to policemen about it and thats what I'd have had to do to report it.

It still affects me decades later, came back with all the reports saying about the awful treatment of that poor young Welsh girl.

Separately, and I can't give details as they may be recognised but I have a male relative who made up story of being sexually assaulted by a woman for kicks and revenge (msgs plotting what he would say and why and laughing about it came to light). He would absolutely have accessed women's spaces claiming to have been raped if he could have.

For those reasons I could never use support services with male bodies.

But this never happens does it

Shame on you Frothy

[picklemepopcorn]

I've finally managed to cat h up on the thread. Well done all on some very civilised hammer and tongs disagreements.

@FrothyDragon , can you find some like minded folk to help you mod the page? It sounds very intense. I admin a group which is much less sensitive and still need a break at times.

[TruthOnTrial]

I'm not all the way through rtft yet, but I coukdnt get past the whole flowerrr pp telling us how women hate men on MN.

Many of those women are saying also, help me not to hate men, and apologising for hating men, and no doubt suffered abuse at the hands of men perhaps?

Women who've suffered abuse are experienced enough to be at least dubious of mens intentions and yes at worst hate them as a group.

Men who hate women have been killing them, without apology, or ask.

[RufusthebewiIderedreindeer]

DUCK FROTHY

[FrothyDragon]

... I have hayfever. Please throw wine instead.

[RufusthebewiIderedreindeer]

Feel like running through the thread chucking flowers with wild abandon

[FrothyDragon]

@BeMoreMagdalen Processing trauma is so, so exhausting as it is, and it really does put people on edge. Your responses are valid and understandable, as much as I didn't like them at the time. And when you feel you've got more people against you, that is so overwhelming. I'm sorry my words and actions contributed towards that.

The solidarity and sisterhood in this forum is amazing, and I do particularly like TheProdigalKitten's comment, where she states: "women attempting to reach out to each other and say that even if they think someone has made what they consider to be a bad decision that doesn't mean that they're writing her off forever and casting her into the wilderness"

That has always been the nature of this board.

[BeMoreMagdalen]

Frothy, I am actually in tears reading your most recent responses here. I'm extremely fragile in recent weeks, having been finally processing my rapes and the stuff that went on around them, and I've been like a bear with a sore head everywhere and with everyone. It's been exhausting, and I think, evident in my early responses to you here. The psychological impact of feeling that more and more people are against you even when you thought they believed you and were on your side is profound.

But reading your thoughtful responses and the obviously good faith attempts to traverse back to protecting something that feels safer, and the sisterly responses last night, I've been overwhelmed by a sense of hopefulness I haven't felt for quite some time. You're good people.

[SonicVersusGynaephobia]

He sounds like a fantastic boy.

[FrothyDragon]

On a side note, DS cut all ties with XP when he found out what had happened. DS had agreed to (telephone) contact with XP, with strict rules.

A few months later, he overheard a conversation between me and a friend, and the next day asked about what he'd heard. That very same night he messaged his father and said he wanted nothing more to do with him. He's stuck to that since.

They do listen.

He also called out his friend's boyfriend for being a controlling asshat. Publicly. In front of the class. They were ten at the time.

[FrothyDragon]

It goes without saying, Zebra, but I believe you.

Someone shared a post the other day in another group I'm in about how male violence against women is often used as a plot point, and often played out on the screen in graphic detail. In discussing it, someone posted a comment about how she wanted to see such storylines handled more sensitively, without the depiction, and perhaps a cut scene from the character in which she states something along the lines of "I shouldn't have to show you for you to believe me. That's not belief, that's accepting facts.It's 'only the people in that room know what happened'." That stuck with me, and it's so relevant to self-disclosure, too.

I'm sorry that Flowerrr made this environment feel unsafe for you to post your experience, but please know that support is never lessened when we choose to keep some things to ourselves for preservation.

[zebrasdontwearbras]

It just restates my relief that I left XP when I did.

[zebrasdontwearbras]

Mmm - I just wrote a whole post about myself, which I probably won't post now in case that Flowerrr person turns up here again, or some other disrupter.

Suffice to say I've never needed the service of a women's refuge, thankfully - but I have been victim to rape by a previous partner (never reported) - so your page is important to me.

[FrothyDragon]

Sorry, that should say the sessions are run in a way that guarantees confidentiality, not anonymity. Different levels of disclosure, there.

[FrothyDragon]

As DS is now 11, I really really empathise with your pain there. I really do. He's 12 in just over two months, and the idea of being potentially told he wouldn't be able to come to a refuge with me would have broken me. It just restates my relief that I left XP when I did.

[zebrasdontwearbras]

there were risk assessments done around teenage sons whose mothers were in a refuge, and IIRC, one of them had a strict No-Boys-Over-The-Age-Of-Twelve policy.

As a mum of boys this has always pained me - because I can't imagine any scenario where I would leave them - it seems to trap the mothers of of boys with no way to escape a dv relationship. But of course, I understand how even teen boys may trigger a ptsd response in other vulnerable women. My own 2 boys went into full puberty at 11 - with deep voices, and a male muscular frame that was clearly male at about 13. They were also both stronger and taller than me at 13. So I understand this.

The same surely must apply to male-bodied transwomen - is my opinion.

"I have updated the about page, which reinforces the focus on female survivors of rape. I know my posts over the weekend caused quite some damage, and for that I do apologise."

I appreciate that, thank you.

[FrothyDragon]

GC, so sorry, would you mind resending me the link, please. I forgot to bookmark it.

My issue wasn't with single-sex spaces being inclusive - hell, during my own time in a refuge, there were risk assessments done around teenage sons whose mothers were in a refuge, and IIRC, one of them had a strict No-Boys-Over-The-Age-Of-Twelve policy.

Women's refuges are already so overstretched on funding. Horrifically so. With the amount of funding LGBT charities receive, they should have no issue with setting up LGBT specific spaces, with women entering these spaces being given the option to be referred to a woman-only space if that suits their needs. This needs to be done without judgement, with full acceptance of the woman's needs

When it comes to rape centres, there are, or should be, measures put in place to ensure that women have access to women-only spaces. The charity I plan on doing my placement with runs sessions in a way that should, in theory, ensure clients are granted complete anonymity. Although trans/non-binary people and men are counselled by the service, the appointments are, from what I've understood, staggered to minimise the risk of clients crossing paths. (Furthermore, most counsellors are discouraged from taking back-to-back appointments for ethical reasons, so running into another client shouldn't happen) However, I know for some women this isn't security enough, as there is still a small risk regarding crossing paths with men within the centre.

There are ways to minimise this risk further, but this feels like an essay already.

So, besides ensuring that no "women rape too" comments are allowed on IBH, alongside the namecalling, derailing and otherwise obviously banned comments, if there is anything you feel I could do to make the page safer, please please comment. I have updated the about page, which reinforces the focus on female survivors of rape. I know my posts over the weekend caused quite some damage, and for that I do apologise.

The page has always been accessed by men and transwomen, and most of the time the comments have been entirely supportive. Where there have been issues, I've worked on a case by case basis on whether an individual should be banned - some people do take note after explanations, but it quickly becomes apparent when someone won't listen or understand.

But any feedback is further welcomed. Thanks.

(So, was that 8,000 words? If so, reckon I could just submit this as my dissertation? I kid, I haven't Harvard referenced this)

[DuMondeB]

Hooray for the unbanning!

We might never all agree but i’m glad we can talk here without the block lists etc.

[zebrasdontwearbras]

Well it's nice to see you back on the board, frothydagon.

Even if we don't agree on the inclusion of transwomen in (what should be) single sex rape centres/refuges - because it ends up excluding some of the most vulnerable women - we do agree on an awful lot of feminist issues. Hope you stick around.

[GColdtimer]

Thanks for unbanning me frothy, if that is a word. I would be interested to know at some point (not right now if you are in a happy space after watching Toy Story) what you think of the FOVAS report and the blog post from my friend I shared earlier and how that sits with your inclusive stance. I think at some point you may well come to the conclusion that when being inclusive actually excludes more people than it includes - well it’s not really inclusive any more.

[BeMoreMagdalen]

[FrothyDragon]

Look. We can still be vipers, but I've just watched Toy Story. This is too far...