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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Posie Parker Interview

999 replies

wprice81 · 13/10/2019 23:23

Is anyone else aware that Posie is doing an interview with controversial youtuber, j.f. gariepy? didn't expect to see that...

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CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 14/10/2019 15:58

When an individual TRA behaves like a POS, it’s commented upon as if they are a collective. When PP does something ‘we’re all individuals’ you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think you’re judged by the company you keep.

When a TRA behaves like a POS, for example Rachel McKinnon, they are treated and condemned as an individual. It's the TRA's who collectively rally round and use this to cry trans-phobia towards all of them, they make themselves a collective.

The opposite actually happens here, Gender Critical people are being treated as a big collective and we are pointing out that no, we're not.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 14/10/2019 16:01

That's what I mean when I say I think it's counterproductive, MrsSnippyPants. Love her, hate her, think she's right sometimes and wrong at other times, Posie is not the opposition in this fight. I would rather focus on the actual opposition rather than waste time arguing over whether any given GC woman or group is doing precisely what I would like them to be doing at any given time.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 14/10/2019 16:13

I don't understand this thing of if you believe X, you must also believe y and z.

Are alt-right white supremacists not allowed to have concerns around self-ID?

The important thing is that everyone knows what is happening. Staying in a bubble where you only interact with people who's views completely align with yours means that you will never learn anything.

stealthsquirrelnutkin · 14/10/2019 16:16

Thanks for the link wprice, it was quite interesting and not something I would have ever found for myself.

I'm in awe of Posie and her ability to stick to the important stuff and ignore all derailing attempts. I aspire to be more like her.

The bloke did come across as a misogynist, I can well imagine why his relationship history hasn't been to his satisfaction. The idea that once he matured to a rational adult he reached the conclusion that women are just as violent as men would have set me off on a rant about the 2-3 women per week being murdered by men in the UK, does he really believe that society is covering up the deaths of 2-3 men/week being murdered by their female partners? I wouldn't have been able to resist pointing out that a man doesn't have to his his partner very hard or very often to control her behaviour with the threat of violence.

Posie just took his testeria in her stride, not backing down, never agreeing with him, giving her own experiences and then agreeing to disagree and bringing the discussion back to why she was there. To alert people to the heinous crimes being perpetrated against some of the most vulnerable children in our respective countries, with the support of medical personnel and our political parties, who have allowed themselves to be influenced by sinister lobby groups.

It was also highly educational to finally get some background to those pernicious rumours of Posie being a racist. Personally I don't find anything the least bit racist about saying little girls should wear clothes that allow them freedom of movement rather than garments that are designed to force them to constantly pay heed to their "modesty". That comes across as exact opposite of racism to me, it is solid evidence that Posie's concerns for the well being of girls is not limited to her own demographic.

Nor did I find anything the least bit racist in her pointing that Bristols proud claims of being "inclusive" in their choices for Lord Mayor are dodgy as fuck. If throughout the course of history they have managed to chose 3 Muslim men as Lord Mayor but only two women from any religious background, surely we should all be clamouring to know how that was ever touted as being inclusive? Don't forget that women make up 51% of the population and Muslim men account for slightly less than 2.2%. Basic feminist analysis, showing once again that inclusivity actively excludes females, and that most people are so oblivious to the injustice of this that merely drawing attention to the fact is enough to make you the target of malicious accusations and slanderous whispers.

Gay children are being deceived into believing it is possible to change sex. They are being fast tracked onto drugs that will prevent their brains and bodies from ever reaching full maturity, on a path that leads to cross sex hormones and irreversible surgical mutilations. The impact of this is not restricted solely to children born to people on the left! Deciding that you are too pure and precious to risk spreading the information to groups of people who don't share your political beliefs seems cowardly and vile to me. We need to make sure that everyone is aware of what is happening, so that we can stand together, united against the cult that has got a stranglehold on our politicians and decision makers.

LangCleg · 14/10/2019 16:17

Hands up who even remembers the "infighting" when second wave feminists shared platforms and engaged with Mary Whitehouse and her bunch of fundie extremists in order to oppose pornography? Because I promise you it was as endless and counterproductive as this shite is. It doesn't help; it hampers.

Nobody remembers. Because in hindsight, we all know that there are different reasons to oppose pornography.

They had limited and temporary successes. Looking back now, all feminists appreciate the work done and are grateful for what was achieved even if it didn't last.

We're not fucking children. It's not a What Posie's Done Now soap opera. Or Real Housewives, the Gender Critical Edition.

If you're working for the benefit of women and/or child protection in this hostile and frightening environment and you're doing it to the best of your ability in ways you genuinely think are for the best, I'm supporting you - regardless of whether you take risks I wouldn't, we're on the same page politically, or I can't stand you personally.

End of.

LangCleg · 14/10/2019 16:18

Great post Stealth.

OhWhatACarveUp · 14/10/2019 16:19

The point is about personal integrity. I'm sure Tommy Robinson and I agree on a lot of things. We probably both want the NHS to be well funded, he might well be a fan of public transportation for all I know, and he might for an advocate for increasing the education budget. But would I want to share a platform with him to argue for any of these things? If I did, I think people would have the right to judge me for sharing a platform with him.

The Daily Mail / Julie Bindel example is not quite fair, as the DM, like or loath it is a mainstream publication.

IfNot · 14/10/2019 16:22

It's not policing. I can't stop her getting herself broadcast on racist you tube channels and I'm not trying to. I am also not going to police my own response to her doing that
Also, I really don't think you can compare this type of You Tuber with any of the mainstream media EVEN the Daily Mail!
Like I said, if you feel nice and secure that white supremacists aren't ever coming for you I guess it's easier to shrug it off as "nothing to do with me".

IfNot · 14/10/2019 16:24

Not to mention the guy's nasty past with women..
I wouldn't be in a hurry to praise someone who hung out with Roman Polanski or Harvey Weinstein either.

IfNot · 14/10/2019 16:26

And no you don't just have to talk to people you agree with-my best mate is a Tory! But there's a line imo.

MagneticSingularity · 14/10/2019 16:26

"If one woman does something that some unspecified moral arbiter disagrees with then none of us can have nice things"

"Also, she says she's a happily married woman, which last time I checked, wasn't a crime."

"I find the "men won't give us our rights if some women seem to be keeping questionable company" aspect of the conversation particularly interesting/depressing. Sometimes I wonder to what extent that's been internalized and whether the people saying it believe that we don't deserve rights unless we can prove that we're beyond reproach."

^^ Who here is saying these things?

I find it interesting that every time we have this conversation about PP, so many come out to not so subtly put those they view as her detractors in the "internalised misogyny" "don't like strong women" and "can't really be GC/feminist" boxes and to not so delicately plant the suggestion that we're just TRA/MRA disrupters and derailers trying to drive a wedge to divide and conquer.

Is it a defensive thing I wonder? That some of those quick to dismiss the concerns of even mildly dissenting voices aren't actually all that comfortable with some of the people PP associates with either but, given they've been such vocal cheerleaders and helped her build such a high profile on GC issues, now find it hard to backtrack? Like it or not, PP is a big wheel in this arena and, unless we are as just as quick to disavow her and her alt-right connections as she is to espouse them, we all get tarred by the same brush.

BTW I'm no TRA/MRA plant, I reject and resent the implication. You don't get to put me down because I have boundaries about the company I keep. And - speaking purely for myself - PP and the people she associates with in the USA (which, in the interests of full disclosure, is where I live) aren't company I choose to keep.

MrsSnippyPants · 14/10/2019 16:27

It's purity politics. I have no time for it. You all do you. Go well.

LangCleg · 14/10/2019 16:37

PP and the people she associates with in the USA (which, in the interests of full disclosure, is where I live) aren't company I choose to keep.

You're certainly choosing to keep company on this thread. If you don't like what she's doing, why keep associating yourself with it? You're making the conflation on behalf of the people you say you don't want making conflations, FFS.

If you don't like what a woman is doing and fear negative publicity - stop drawing incessant attention to what she's doing. It's not rocket science.

IfNot · 14/10/2019 16:45

Hands up who even remembers the "infighting" when second wave feminists shared platforms and engaged with Mary Whitehouse and her bunch of fundie extremists in order to oppose pornography?
I don't remember that Lang. I was a mere child. Wink

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 14/10/2019 16:48

The Daily Mail / Julie Bindel example is not quite fair, as the DM, like or loath it is a mainstream publication.

What about the Julie Bindel/Milo Yiannopoulos example then? Milo is 'alt-right' and much better known than the random Canadian man Posie spoke to.

Should we cast Goody Bindel out for consorting with the devil?

I'm not going there. I am a grown adult who speaks for me and me alone. I don't need Posie, or Julie, or Milo, or random Canadian bloke to do my thinking for me I came to my own conclussions about trans privilege activists and their ideology from reading about them, their ideology, their behaviour. I educated myself like they told me to. It hasn't worked out well for them.

OhWhatACarveUp · 14/10/2019 17:05

What about the Julie Bindel/Milo Yiannopoulos example then? Milo is 'alt-right' and much better known than the random Canadian man Posie spoke to.

There is a difference. From what I can tell about the Bindel / Milo event, Julie Bindel went out to debate him honestly and openly. She didn't use Milo's platform to advocate her points and avoid the nasty things. Julie Bindel is fantastically intellectually honest.

MagneticSingularity · 14/10/2019 17:08

*You're certainly choosing to keep company on this thread. If you don't like what she's doing, why keep associating yourself with it? You're making the conflation on behalf of the people you say you don't want making conflations, FFS.

If you don't like what a woman is doing and fear negative publicity - stop drawing incessant attention to what she's doing. It's not rocket science.*

Oh stop it with your 'shut up and sit down' specious arguments. How by responding to a thread am I drawing "incessant attention" to PP and what she's doing? How does voicing my concerns and outright opposition to her alt-right cohorts equate to 'keeping company with' her or them? That doesn't even begin to make sense. I didn't start this thread but I have as much right to participate in it as anyone else here.

Earlywalker · 14/10/2019 17:13

‘Standing up for women’ is no good if you’re only really standing up for rich, white SAHM’s, that’s my main issue with PP.

I was more amazed that she continued to be lapped up after the USA trip last year. Alas ‘white feminism’ does exist and it’s damaging enough without adding the rest in.

IfNot · 14/10/2019 17:27

That's not my issue really earlywalker . We can only really know our own experience, the point of view of a white middle class woman is just as valid as any other woman, and women can address the concerns that affect them. Feminism being about women and all.
I guess we all come to being GC from different perspectives. My concerns are mainly transing children, prisons and the recording of crime data. Others will have different perspectives.

So I don't care if Posie only speaks for 40 something SAHMS with blonde hair from the home counties frankly. Good for her.
My issue is about her teaming up with people who are blatantly, frighteningly racist, which makes me wary of having any connection to her or the things she organises.
And this is personal. It's my personal opinion. Not a command that every other woman on Earth shuns her.

zebrasdontwearbras · 14/10/2019 17:46

I'm not keen on the use of the term "white feminism" at all - I have only ever heard it used in a way that is derogatory to women and feminists. Usually by alt-righters, TRAs, and MRAs too.

Earlywalker · 14/10/2019 17:53

I don’t expect Posie (or anyone) to make an Active point of standing up for all women, she’s a privileged lady and can only speak from her own perspective but by continuously standing with people who make life harder for marginalised and oppressed women from other backgrounds?

In my eyes, you’re standing against them Too.

zebra are you white yourself? It may be why the term makes you feel uncomfortable?

zebrasdontwearbras · 14/10/2019 17:56

What about the Julie Bindel/Milo Yiannopoulos example then?

Well, this guy makes Milo look like Jeremy Corbyn, and the Daly Mail look like the Socialist Worker Grin

Seriously though, I've actually watched this, and enjoyed the debate. Can't abide Milo, but watching Julie joshing around with him was entertaining - and I think a difference was that they were both appearing on a University Campus debate. So sharing a platform - not being interviewed by him on his YT channel.

That makes a difference to me - it may not to everyone, but it does to me.

Plus what a pp said about Posie preaching to choir is kind of true - it hadn't occurred to me before - but yes, they all agree with us already - just for different reasons.

Sorry, I still love posie, and I'm not policing her moves at all - it's just that listening to this guy made me Envy - especially all that "she didn't have any features of jewry" stuff after she'd left. That made me feel sick - and I've watched an awful lot of MRA & alt-right videos in my time, I''m no novice.

This man -to me- is literally a nazi. It doesn't help that I caught a programme over the weekend called Hitler's Holocaust, which contained a description of a Polish citizen being shot by the Nazis for having a hook nose - a "feature of Jewry." I know Posie's beliefs don't align with his, - but this really affected me.

zebrasdontwearbras · 14/10/2019 17:59

I don't want to engage with someone who uses the term "white feminism" any more than I want to see posie engaging with a man who use the term "features of jewry", thanks EarlyWalker.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 14/10/2019 18:02

I'm just going to say that searching a user's previous posts can be very helpful in getting a sense of where they're coming from.

Happydays365 · 14/10/2019 18:02

Just curious as to why you all think Posie is rich? Bring a SAHP doesn’t make you rich? It’s likely she wouldn’t make much money if she did go back to work as she has such a large CV gap so there’s probably not much point.

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