Men only job

[SuperMeerkat]

First time post, long time lurker. I spotted a job that was for men only, sexual health clinic support worker. Advert said ‘exempt under gender discrimination laws etc’ What would happen if a woman applied saying she identified as a man? Or if you were non-binary like I think Sam Smith is? I don’t want the job, just wondering really.

Well logically they would have to be considered for the job,

As even though this is an area where single sex exemptions are allowed

In practice, everything seems to have gone self id

I assume that tras would agitate if the org did not accept a self id application.

The employer shouldn't accept applications from women or women who identify as men.

Men are entitled to single sex support just as women are, women don't want men who think they are women doing smear tests just as men don't want a women who think they are men doing prostate exams. Some men actually might prefer women for that but the point is this job is for men only, so no women allowed.

The law allows this exemption, the general public understand and support it, it's just the trans ideology that doesn't.

@OhHolyJesus That’s what I was thinking about the public believing it but the trans community not. I just hope that the job application goes smoothly!

I'm actually very interested to see what happens with this, the TRAs hate women having their space but men are usually allowed theirs. It would be interesting if this place got the usual push back or pile on for being specific in their job ad.

In sensitive circumstances such as this it would be lawful to refuse someone who identified as male but who was biologically female. Same goes for sensitive job roles such as rape crisis support workers - it is lawful to not accept applications from trans women.

In very restricted circumstances it is lawful for an organisation to provide a different service or to refuse the service to someone who is undergoing or has undergone gender reassignment

Info taken from: www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/gender-reassignment-discrimination#lawful

One of my biggest concerns is Stonewall etc being very cagey about these EA exemptions and whether they are campaigning to remove them.

Should be easy enough to filter out at interview.
Q: what would you do to help men feel at ease with you?
Right-sex-HCP: well, I'd try to engage them in conversation about how their day's going etc etc
TRA-HCP: Transphobia! If they don't feel at ease with me they're bigots! Reeducate them!

But it's different. It's a mans space that they are protecting, so they will apply the equality act correctly.

"The law allows this exemption, the general public understand and support it, it's just the trans ideology that doesn't."

All women's services are becoming inclusive of transwomen.

I don't expect men's services are inclusive of transmen, tho, somehow.

Ads for women only services generally seem to advertise for anyone who ids as a woman

Some look for non men ie include nkn binary

Agree with pp. It's men - men get support under the equality act. People identifying as men are in fact female, females never get taken that seriously and people have no difficulty at all saying no to them.

When it comes to women's single sex provision the same rules apply - females don't get taken seriously and people have no difficulty saying no to them, so men get to overcome the equality act.

The trans privilege thing only applies to people born male and only works against people born female. It's almost like everyone knows what sex everyone else is, as if there's ingrained sexism favouring the male sex and disadvantaging women, and there was a reason for the single sex provision in the first place...….

Plus if you advertise a man only post you will get nothing like the kicking off, or scary people shouting Ma'am at you that you will from male born people if you dare suggest something is for women only.

There is no such thing are gender based equality, it is based on sex.

Do they want someone of the male gender or the male sex? I'm assuming the latter is the case.

Sam Smith would be eligible to apply and would be protected since he is a biological man. The non binary crowd identify as their biological sex when it suits them, for example the non binary biological female who was on a shortlist for women's fiction.

You know you're all getting angry at a fictional situation right? Op was wondering about a fictional situation which she invented, everyone is foaming at the mouth about something that didn't happen. Check your bigotry guys.

"You know you're all getting angry at a fictional situation right?"

Where's the anger?
People are having a discussion.

"everyone is foaming at the mouth"

They're really not.

Check your hyperbole.

Check your hyperbole

^This

Why do ignoramuses fling around words like bigotry, like monkeys flinging poo?

Could be worse, at the local nature reserve they upgraded from poo and weeing on you to furious masterbation (and they got quite the distance with their ejaculate)

hmmm.. perhaps not so different after all.

at the local nature reserve they upgraded from poo and weeing on you to furious masturbation (and they got quite the distance with their ejaculate)

So unlike the homelife of our dear Queen.

That's an intetesting point.

Women are unlikely to apply for this role as generally, women are way way less likely to be intrusive, sexually predatory, and if they do, yes they could cause trouble but generally the physical aspect gives a different power balance.

Men otoh are v likely to seek vulnerable women and children and do it all the time. And men as well. Namalt.

I don't understand why the prevalence of male dodgy sexual behaviour vs women is glossed over so much.

I mean the idea that pervy men, in fact normal men. want in with the women or to spy on them when undressing etc was a standard thing when I was growing up. It was seen as normal. Women do not in general, are rarely presented this way in media, and real life stats backs it up.

Why is it only women who are saying this is a problem? I suppose the whole 'bros before ho's' thing. Plus, most men don't know, and neither do most women.

Oh when I say it was seen as normal I was thinking benny Hill, carry on, porkies. I grew up in late 70s early 80s. Idea that men would a. Always be keen to see a woman taking her clothes off even if it was non consensual ie he was spying and b. This was totally normal male behaviour was all over tv, films etc

And girls and women know what men can be like.

That's why we have sex segregated stuff in the first place.

No one really thinks that male humans have abruptly evolved.

They just don't care about women and girls.

This apparently is a bigoted view? Come off it.

I work for a charity supporting women who have been sexually assaulted, I very much care about women and girls.
Through my work I know sex offenders are disproportionately likely to be heterosexual men and transgender women are statistically at high risk of being sexually assaulted but less likely to receive appropriate help.

Statements like, 'The trans privilege thing" (that really does not exist), "TRAs hate women having their space but men are usually allowed theirs" and thirdfiddle's entire post are based on nothing but bigotry and misinformation. Can anyone here actually they have experienced this?

I'm ignoring the posts comparing me to an animal flinging feaces and masturbating in a zoo for obvious reasons.

Posts like this are what is giving feminism and Mumsnet a bad name.

It's disgusting that there are men and women are happy to allow abusers to continue unchallenged, and to remove safeguarding from women and girls.
Its anti feminist, and its not a good look.

Inebriati, I agree, however I don't see how that is relevant to this post? I assume you're talking about the myth that accepting transgender women into women's spaces somehow is a threat to women? That's not what this post was about and there is absolutely no evidence to suggest this is the case.

Self ID allows any male predator to access women only spaces and services, how is that difficult for you to understand? Stop telling women we are lying or hysterical.

The harm caused is not a myth. Ask any of the women who have been harmed instead of ignoring them and pretending they don't exist.

You could start with the woman raped by Karen White in a psychiatric unit. Or any of his 4 victims in a women's prison.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3716238-Quillette-Article-the-stats-about-trans-in-women-s-prison

Male predators do not need to identify as women to have access to women.

Yes the example of Karen White is horrendous and should not have been allowed to happen. It is reflective of a justice system that does not understand transgender issues and a justice system that does not keep women safe. However, the issue of sexual abuse in prisons is a huge, huge issue and needs serious, robust investigation and reform to better protect people who are incarcerated from staff and other sexually violent inmates. It is not an excuse to justify transphobia.

As I said, I work daily with women who have been sexually abused and I see how retraumatising it is to not be believed. That is not what I am doing here. There is no evidence to say transgender women are a threat to women. I am saying that from both an evidence based statistical perspective and a lived experience of working my with victims/survivors. The vast, vast majority of sexual offenders are cisgender, heterosexual men that are well known to their victims.

Please remember that transgender women have statistically a very high chance of being sexually assaulted, those women need protection and a voice too.