Men only job

[SuperMeerkat]

First time post, long time lurker. I spotted a job that was for men only, sexual health clinic support worker. Advert said ‘exempt under gender discrimination laws etc’ What would happen if a woman applied saying she identified as a man? Or if you were non-binary like I think Sam Smith is? I don’t want the job, just wondering really.

@99luftballons99 but but don't go...how many biological sexes are there?

Well the fact that with women and girls, rape can result in pregnancy, is just that, a fact. I'd say that anyone who can't see that pregnancy as a result of rape introduces an additional layer of distress and harm, is no friend of women or girls. In places with no abortion, they have to bear that child. Yeah I'd say anyone who doesn't see why that's a bit shit either hates women or is a psychopath tbh.

@Fraggling so you agree it would be worse for a 5 year old girl to be raped than a 5 year old boy due to the risk of pregnancy? Also it would be worse if a woman was raped before her hysterectomy than afterwards?? I'm not the one who is a f*ing psychopath.

I'm going to link the NHS article one more time because people don't seem to have read it!! www.gp.brightonandhoveccg.nhs.uk/new-thinking-about-gender
The NHS say you can be male, female or intersex and that it is a spectrum!

I'm not getting anywhere I'm literally having to repeat myself over and over whilst people tell me I'm not who I feel and say I am and I'm not what doctors tell me I am because they know better lol. I'll leave you to hate in peace

Yep that NHS link says gender...not sex.
Still not clear on how many biological sexes there are and so I'll have to hate in peace having not been informed by 99...

Erm nice try.

You'll see thats not what I said at all.

This is mn. Obviously women on here think child sex offences are bad. I mean. Come off it.

Your gotcha is hopeless.

Your dismissal of any additional trauma on top of a rape of becoming pregnant, especially if you're a young child (5 is extreme, could of cases with 10yo in the news recently) is v v telling though.

" biological sex isn't binary. I don't know what reading you've done but the NHS literally tell you this"

The same NHS also has many references to people of "the opposite sex", eg when referring to mixed sex wards. If there are more than two biological sexes, what is this "opposite" that they are referring to?

When you look at it

It's really quite bonkers

That women who say they are not keen on everything that has been put in place for our safety, wellbeing and advancement. Being opened up to everyone. And ignoring the basic and obvious problems that will be raised for women and girls

Get accused of thinking boys being raped isn't very bad.

And the person who wrote it thinking oho gotcha.

And the absolute disregard of the impact on women and girls of becoming pregnant as a result of rape is interesting as well.

Why aren't you reading the article???

It says: We are perhaps used to thinking of sex as a binary: male/female. However, this is misleading. We now understand that for some people, the simple sex designation of male or female does not fit. Historically, such people were called ‘hermaphrodites’ but this is offensive, out-of-date language now. The term ‘Intersex’ would be used instead. In clinical terms, Disorders of Sex Development may be used but some patients do not like this.

There's even a diagram!!!!!!!

I'm not saying that pregnancy as a result of rape isn't absolutely horrific but rape isn't more horrific for fertile women then it is for infertile women, children, etc etc which is what the original post about it said!!! It was their post that said even 5 years old can get pregnant so I don't know why you're criticising me rather than her lol (of course I do know.) I don't know why I'm still here because it's like yelling at s brick wall.

?

Your link doesn't say what you think it says.

Telling mothers that they don't think boys being raped is as bad as girls is odd. Do you really believe that that's what women on here believe?

what odd contributions!

The words binary and spectrum don't half get abused. I prefer dimorphism, its a bit less open to the nonsensical waffle about how babies are made.

The hostility shown by people that believe humans can be simultaneously both on a spectrum and dimorpically the opposite sex is tiresome.

If you believe that, fine, go ahead, but spare us the insults if we don't.

And I still don't understand why the existence of intersex people means that perfectly standard men should be put in women only places on their say so.

That doesn't follow at all.

I've read the article.

It talks about "new thinking" and not "new evidence".

Here's an NHS document that dates from only last month:

improvement.nhs.uk/documents/6005/Delivering_same_sex_accommodation_sep2019.pdf

It refers throughout to "opposite sex". Why do you think it does that if there are more than 2 sexes?

Maybe like a colour wheel?

World Health Organisation:

Clearly, there are not only females who are XX and males who are XY, but rather, there is a range of chromosome complements, hormone balances, and phenotypic variations that determine sex.
www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

Scientific American:
Nearly everyone in middle school biology learned that if you’ve got XX chromosomes, you’re a female; if you’ve got XY, you’re a male. This tired simplification is great for teaching the importance of chromosomes but betrays the true nature of biological sex. The popular belief that your sex arises only from your chromosomal makeup is wrong. The truth is, your biological sex isn’t carved in stone, but a living system with the potential for change.

Why? Because biological sex is far more complicated than XX or XY (or XXY, or just X). XX individuals could present with male gonads. XY individuals can have ovaries. How? Through a set of complex genetic signals that, in the course of a human’s development, begins with a small group of cells called the bipotential primordium and a gene called SRY.

A newly fertilized embryo initially develops without any indication of its sex. At around five weeks, a group of cells clump together to form the bipotential primordium. These cells are neither male nor female but have the potential to turn into testes, ovaries or neither. After the primordium forms, SRY—a gene on the Y chromosome discovered in 1990, thanks to the participation of intersex XX males and XY females—might be activated.*

Though it is still not fully understood, we know SRY plays a role in pushing the primordium toward male gonads. But SRY is not a simple on/off switch, it’s a precisely timed start signal, the first chord of the “male gonad” symphony. A group of cells (instrument sections) must all express SRY (notes of the chord), at the right time (conductor?). Without that first chord, the embryo will play a different symphony: female gonads, or something in between.

blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

Picture is from NHS.... but yeah you guys all know better!!

This is mumsnet, most of us have made babies. Seen them in the womb, even may have had amnio tests at an early stage to detemine the sex. None of that text above is any sort of explanation of how males are females though.

That isn't from the nhs. It's from a paper.

It also doesn't say what you think it says.

I want to know why you think the existence of intersex people means that strandard men should be allowed to access to all the things previously set aside for women, on their say so.

WTF has any of that got to do with transgenderism let alone transphobia?

Its not more complicated; a disorder of sexual development does not create a third sex. It creates people with a disorder.
There is no third sex. If there were, there would be a third type of gamete.

I don't think standard men should be allowed in women's spaces, I think women should be allowed in women's spaces. That includes trans women and women like me whose mum was told when I was born they could not say what sex I was @Water100

But SRY is not a simple on/off switch, it’s a precisely timed start signal

Do you think this is the alledged gotcha? Using electronics langauage for embryo development somehow proves that the word female means male and female, and the word female means male and female?

Nope.

Ooh, standard men. They're the worst..

Nothing.

It's a distraction.

The hope is that people will be so bamboozled by the papers they'll get caught up in it and get distracted from the obvious in your face stuff.

Which is that

Mammals and most plants and animals come in male and female
That the reason for that is reproduction which at a species level is the be all and end all, and that humans are very good at
That 99.999 of everyone in the world knows damn well what male, female, girl, boy, man, woman mean
And that attached to those sexes are expectations, cultural norms etc that result in a shittier time for women and girls across the world generally
That women and girls tend to be smaller, and have specific needs and concerns related to our biology
And that as a result some things have been carved out in a world built by men, for men, to make things a bit better
And that now there is push back against these gains

I am sure you and your mum have had a tough time of it. I read a wonderful book by Alice Dreger about the trails and tribulations of such conditions as yours, Galileo's middle finger. I can recommend it. Maybe you have already read it.

However, this conflation of variations of sex development with transexualism won't convince women that male to female transitioners are no longer males, we know too much about it and have experienced too much of the other conditions that cause this phenomenon to be willing to believe it. That may seem cruel but its not really, it's just a natural and nuutral part of our understanding of human life.

Who says using the term hermaphrodite is wrong, outdated, old fashioned and insulting and that the term intersex is new, fashionable, acceptable and non-offensive?

Who decides this? The NHS?

As Squirrel says there are sexes that are opposite, i.e 2 sexes, this means it is binary.

It's really not that difficult.

Well standard men as a group are the worst if you're a woman or a girl, or indeed a man or a boy.

Especially when it comes to sex offences.

The idea that strandard men might be on some sliding scale between male and female and so all the sex differentiated stuff is irrelevant is, well its novel.