"Girls are skipping school to avoid sharing gender neutral toilets with boys" - Mail on Sunday article

[Sunkisses]

Great article in the Mail on Sunday today about the awful impacts on girls of being forced to share loos with boys at school. With quotes from a female GP about the health and psychological impacts of girls not having single-sex loos, Stephanie Davies-Arai from Transgender Trend, and David Davies MP

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7542005/Girls-skipping-school-avoid-sharing-gender-neutral-toilets-boys.html

So women and girls have to fight for their rights to single sex spa aces all over again! That progression for you

What are schools etc supposed to do when they have to provide for those transitioning etc? They can't create split the 2 existing loos into 3, so the only realistic alternative is make all gender neutral.

It's not a realistic expectation to make all toilets Mixed sex. There is a reason we have sex segregated toilets.

Not only for the vulnerable young girls dignity and privacy but young boys and men also find sharing toilets uncomfortable.

A third space is the only option. Stop penalising the majority.

I know 'what about the boys' isnt a popular feminist tact and, being a woman i do understand periods and fear of assualt, but ...i only have boys and their school has gone gender neutral loos apart from 1 boy loo and 1 girl loo in a tucked away corner on a largish site. The boys also avoid going to the loo. They say theres not time between lessons and the queues at the single sex ones are too long. This isnt popular with young boys either.

Does anyone know about Deanesfield Primary School in South Ruislip, West London, that is mentioned in the article?

What are schools etc supposed to do when they have to provide for those transitioning

They should explain to the children that the toilets are separated by sex and as such they should continue to use the toilets appropriate for their sex, even if in class they are now called John instead of Jane.

What are schools etc supposed to do when they have to provide for those transitioning etc? They can't create split the 2 existing loos into 3, so the only realistic alternative is make all gender neutral

If a male child feels uncomfortable in boys toilets then the school should deal with the boys who are making that child feel uncomfortable. Or if necessary they could use staff toilets or accessible toilets. This has nothing to do with girls and half the school population should not have their safety/dignity/privacy taken away to appease a male child.

Or vice versa

It's not half the school losing dignity and privacy, though, it's the whole of the school.

My ds has just started university where all the toilets are gender neutral. He doesn't want to share with females any more than they do him.

What are schools etc supposed to do when they have to provide for those transitioning etc?

According to the most recent tweets from TRAs, people who haven't taken hormones or had surgery aren't really trans. Children aren't legally allowed cross sex hormones or surgery in the UK, so according to TRAs there is no such thing as a trans child. Progress at last.

mobile.twitter.com/joss_prior/status/1180592610894700547?s=20

I am glad this is getting the negative publicity it deserves. It's a shit solution to giving all pupils privacy and dignity.

this makes me so angry. I have daughters. How dare their privacy and dignity be compromised and leave them with no right to reply lest they be dismissed as 'transphobic'

Deanesfield is a primary school.

If I was a parent of a child at that school - or any other school following a similar policy - I would be pointing out that under UK law:

^ Separate toilet and washing facilities must be provided for boys and girls aged 8 years and over pursuant to Regulation 4 of the School Premises (England) Regulations 2012, which falls within the exemption provided for in Schedule 22 of the Equality Act 2010.^

I would then be asking the school to provide in writing its justification for breaking the law. I would also be copying my correspondence to Gavin Williamson, Education Secretary, and asking him what action he proposed to take to ensure the school complied with the law.

JackyHolyoake, wish you were here now.

So, kids don't like it, parents don't like it either. How is it then allowed to continue? Is there an official mechanism for challenging this available to parents?

I assume some TRA group will have told them it's legally required but it's not. Would the threat of a lawsuit from parents be effective?

I remember back at school when I was 12 and not long started my periods, the boys toilets had a plumbing issue and had to be ripped out, so for almost a whole week, instead of telling them to use toilets in another year block, we were told the boys in our year would be using the girls toilets too. The first day of this, as I was trying to open a sanitary towel quietly in a cubicle, the boys who decided hanging out in the girls toilets was the place to be, "because they could", heard and thought it was hilarious. Trying to jump up and grab the top of the door, to look over the top and see who was in there. I was terrified. Sat there at 12 years old, feeling so scared, and ashamed. They started shaking and banging on the door, saying they weren't going to leave until I came out. I had tears rolling down my face at this point, while they laughed and kicked the door harder and harder saying stuff like "maybe she's dead!?" and threatening me if I didn't come out. Then it went quiet and I could just hear quiet sniggers, I look up and two of them had jumped on the toilets in the cubicles either side and were staring in at me. It was the most humiliating experience of my life. I grabbed my bag and ran, while they laughed hysterically. I didn't go back to school for a week, and when my mum complained to the head we were told the boys would be "spoken to" but it was just lads being lads at the end of the day. The older I've got the more unacceptable I've realised the whole thing was. It knocked my confidence at school and for life, and I never use public toilets.
These new rules will see an influx of girls having time off school, utis, and disrupting lessons to go during their learning time in the hope of getting a safe, private space without boys present. And in sure boys feel the same about not wanting to go about their normal bodily functions infront of girls at school.
I will be standing up for my girls, petitioning and protesting for their rights to a private female only space to go about their very female specific functions if this ever occurs at their school. I dread to think of how dangerous this idea could become in this age of smart phones and snapchat. I always feel lucky that back then, mobile phones (especially those with a camera) were far and few between, as I know those boys would have photographed me given have the chance.

What are schools etc supposed to do when they have to provide for those transitioning etc?

Given the guidance enables teachers to do everything behind the parents back, removing a layer of the ability to trans a child without anyones knowledge is probably a good thing.

Untamed, I'm sorry you're still living with that and your experience spells out why girls deserve privacy, dignity and safety.

I'm angry on these young girls' behalf.

Even as an adult when we had mixed sex toilets at work, I would wait all morning/afternoon to use a different toilet or until I finished work. I'd run into my house, bursting and all because female only toilets had been made into mixed sex.

If they can’t for some reason provide a third space for such kids - let them use the teachers loos and facilities.

It’s not for girls to burst their bladders to accommodate a very small number of kids in an unscientific and non fact based ‘experiment’.

If they can’t for some reason provide a third space for such kids - let them use the teachers loos and facilities

Some how I wouldnt see the teachers giving up their privacy ( rightly so) nor putting themselves in the position of having accusations made.

Seems girls have to solve everything for everyone

Doesn't letting troubled kids use teacher's toilets put the teachers and kids at risk?

I wouldn't want to be in school and have to use a toilet that is also used by vulnerable kids. No way. This is not a reasonable solution.

Well I know someone who (long story) as a girl had to go to the next door boys school (her schools don’t teach certain a level) and she had to use the teachers loo.

Anyway - asking this would make schools (and the unions) think long and hard about loos etc and if this is pandering or a genuine need. Unlike what they do now.

You do realise that many children avoid going to the toilet at school anyway, and always have done, even when the toilets are single sex?

This happened at my school and my children's schools. There have been many studies done by urologists and continence nurses about this. Bullying being the main reason why children avoid the toilets. I don't think the problem is due to gender neutral toilets, nor would it be solved by making them single sex.

I love the comment above in how blatantly manipulative it is. Making toilets single sex, as if that wasn't the norm everywhere until very recently.

Well doubling the number of kids using the loo wont help will it .

That part should he obvious

What are schools etc supposed to do when they have to provide for those transitioning etc?

Tell them to use the appropriate facilities for their SEX like everyone else.

I'm beyond sick of this nonsense. No child is trans. No child should be told they are trans. No child should be 'transitioning'.